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I started this thread asking how to defend against the use of porn in marriage, even when used together by a couple. In the posts on the thread that MrNiceGuy referred me to, I found the answer that I will use if I'm ever in such a discussion again. It's an article from Psychology Today, Porn-Induced Sexual Dysfunction is a Growing Problem. It's a very interesting article showing that the problem of porn use is physiological, not psychological as I had previously thought.
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KL you've also inspired me to do way more reading on the subject than I had before. So thanks for starting the thread.
I turned away from porn use during the divorce and have abstained since. Hopefully wahtever negative affects I had have worn off.
I also have started sharing some of this info with my son. For me t his age it was a pile of stolen playboys buried somewhere in the woods. Nowadays these kids carry world of porn access on their phones. It's quite scary - although I monitor frequently.
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There are several articles on PT about porn addiction. There is also a site called "Your Brain on Porn."
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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No more John Cusack movies. Huh? Explain this one.
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No more John Cusack movies. Huh? Explain this one. I can't find the article... can't quite put together the proper search string to bring it up. Boiled down to MB-ish terms, the male roles in romantic movies often build an unrealistic picture of romantic partners. More or less, romantic movies and romance/erotic novels creating a contrast effect geared more toward feminine sensibilities. There have also been studies that show reading romance novels affect women's reports of relationship satisfaction (did a search as I wrote this, one stated; "women with low relationship expectations reported HIGHER relationship satisfaction, while women with high relationship expectations reported LOWER satisfaction" - go figure). Anyway, the article of the first study I read on this (years ago, mind you) specifically pointed out John Cusack, largely due to his large run in Romance movies and Rom-Coms. Don't get me wrong here, Say Anything is one of my all-time favorite movies (and one of the few "Chick Flicks" I can handle), but reading and daydreaming about that pirate portrayed by Fabio on the cover for his fictional qualities (no, not the moobs) definitely provides a contrast effect. Time would be better spent playing pirates with your husband than reading about romance pirates.... or John Cusack in a phonebooth in the rain... "I gave her my heart, and she gave me a pen..."
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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I'm not going to argue with you. But know this, you are comparing masturbation to romance. Are you sure you don't want to throw out Shakespeare too?
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Simple, the very same contrast affect that is present in porn is present in romance novels. Both establish unrealistic expectations in their target audience. You simply do not seek to meet your intimate emotional needs, be they sex or romance through a third party. Be that third party porn or a romance novel. No more John Cusack movies. Huh? Explain this one.
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I'm not going to argue with you. But know this, you are comparing masturbation to romance. Are you sure you don't want to throw out Shakespeare too? Romeo and Juliette is suspect... And yes, I am comparing romance (novels) to masturbation (to pornography). Because I am a jealous, selfish man, I want sole custody of my wife's romantic intimations. Wanna meet in the alley about it?
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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No more John Cusack movies. Huh? Explain this one. I can't find the article... can't quite put together the proper search string to bring it up. Boiled down to MB-ish terms, the male roles in romantic movies often build an unrealistic picture of romantic partners. In what way? I don't know specifically what John Cusack wrote, but I do like romantic comedies. Some are more realistic than others. One problem I have heard alleged is that romantic movies set people up for the "fake" expectation of lifetime love. I've heard Dr. Harley specifically address that -- he of course believes in lifetime love, since he and Joyce have lived it.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I'm not going to argue with you. But know this, you are comparing masturbation to romance. Are you sure you don't want to throw out Shakespeare too? Romeo and Juliette is suspect... And yes, I am comparing romance (novels) to masturbation (to pornography). Because I am a jealous, selfish man, I want sole custody of my wife's romantic intimations. Wanna meet in the alley about it? That sounds like a straight case of POJA, to me.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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There have also been studies that show reading romance novels affect women's reports of relationship satisfaction (did a search as I wrote this, one stated; "women with low relationship expectations reported HIGHER relationship satisfaction, while women with high relationship expectations reported LOWER satisfaction" - go figure). One problem is that there are two approaches out there to marital harmony. One of them is the belief that everybody's expectations need to be lowered. The other is the belief that in general, performance needs to be raised. There are of course some expectations that are unrealistic (I expect you to sacrifice for me, I expect to be independent of you), but at its heart, Marriage Builders is about the idea that we should meet those needs. Raising expectations is typically a good thing. It might result in initial disappointment, but the end result should be the solution of the problems uncovered.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Okay, I looked up John Cusack. You're right, I think this can damage marriages:
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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No more John Cusack movies. Huh? Explain this one. I can't find the article... can't quite put together the proper search string to bring it up. Boiled down to MB-ish terms, the male roles in romantic movies often build an unrealistic picture of romantic partners. In what way? I don't know specifically what John Cusack wrote, but I do like romantic comedies. Some are more realistic than others. One problem I have heard alleged is that romantic movies set people up for the "fake" expectation of lifetime love. I've heard Dr. Harley specifically address that -- he of course believes in lifetime love, since he and Joyce have lived it. You know, that ain't what I read... what I seem to remember reading is that we get the infancy of a romance, and then... happily ever after. No managing kids and finances. No daily life stress. None of the real-life heavy lifting that occurs in real-life relationships... even life-long romantic relationships. Strange...
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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[quote=HoldHerHand]Raising expectations is typically a good thing. "Relationship counselors often face common misconceptions in their clients � that if your partner truly loves you they'd know what you need without you communicating it, that your soul mate is predestined. We did a rigorous content analysis of romantic comedies and found that the same issues were being portrayed in these films," http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1868389,00.html If you don't know where the bar is, you certainly can't reach it. The university's Dr Bjarne Holmes said: "Marriage counsellors often see couples who believe that sex should always be perfect, and if someone is meant to be with you then they will know what you want without you needing to communicate it.
"We now have some emerging evidence that suggests popular media play a role in perpetuating these ideas in people's minds.
"The problem is that while most of us know that the idea of a perfect relationship is unrealistic, some of us are still more influenced by media portrayals than we realise." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7784366.stmBut, but, but.... HHH! An MB marriage!... is G-R-E-A-T. Not perfect. Great. The hero in romance novels may be, as Ogas and Gaddam describe him, �virile, dangerous, and lusty� (p. 87), but he�s not reduced to a sex object either�as, so commonly, are women in �adult� fiction for men. In fact, the hero in romances becomes increasingly human�and vulnerable�as the story develops and, unexpectedly, he falls head-over-heels in love with the much more innocent (and less experienced) heroine.
These heroes are virtually always alpha males, to whom a considerable majority of women seem almost magnetically attracted. And romance novels exploit this preference in various ways. It�s not simply the hero�s physical prowess that is so compelling to female readers: it�s also his �status, confidence, and competence� (p. 95). Each of these traits contributes to his overall dominance�and such male authority, or ascendance, is what most women appear hard-wired to be susceptible to, as well as willing to submit to. Ogas and Gaddam, observing that studies have repeatedly demonstrated the erotic appeal of alpha dominance to women�from the sensory cues of the male�s voice, to his scent, to his movement and gait, to his sharply defined facial features�provide an illustration from Angelle Trieste�s Devil Falls (2008). Note how well this excerpt illustrates what research has by now many times validated:
"Victoria looked up and to her relief saw a man trotting toward her. An umbrella dangled from his hand, and casual but expensive clothes wrapped his long, lean frame. He was gloriously golden, with a face that rivaled Lucifer�s in the moment of his fall from grace.
Damien Kirk. A cellist celebrated the world over.
The magazine photos didn�t do him justice. They had failed to capture the magnetic vividness of his blue eyes and the electrifying vitality of his presence. She could feel it through the gates, even over the ferocity of the dogs, and she had no doubt he had dominated the vast concert halls, driving the crowds wild. Her heartbeat picked up the pace, and it wasn�t all from relief." http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...sexual-desire-part-2-what-s-erotic-womenHollywood, romance novels, and other fairy tales frequently make the point that you should follow your heart's desire when it comes to love and romance. There is this romantic notion that when two people fall in love or are mutually attracted to each other in a passionate manner then the birds start to sing, rainbows comes out, violins are heard, love is in the air, and the couple should act on this attraction regardless of consequence. Whether it is Romeo and Juliet or Brad and Angelina this theme has been part of our cultural mythos for centuries. Maybe this is a good idea but often it is a really really bad idea. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/do-the-right-thing/201203/should-you-follow-your-heart-in-love
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Okay, maybe I'm naive. Maybe I just don't let things impact me like they others. Maybe, maybe, maybe...
What happened to reading a book, enjoying the book while you're reading it because it's fiction (or whatever genre), and then getting back to life when you close the cover? Yes I know the psychology behind this. But, seriously, some people need to learn to control themselves. If I read a book and there's a supermodel wife that cooks and cleans and smells like cotton candy when she wakes up, I don't start judging my marriage or my wife based on some fictional character...or movie scene or drama on stage or etc. I think Catherine Zeta Jones was beautiful in Zorro. I don't wish my wife was more like her. My wife thinks Matt Damon's character in the Bourne series is attractiv and a badass when defeating the bad guys. She isn't going to start comparing to me an action superstar. Taht would be silly.
I used to play Dungeons and Dragons a lot as a teenager. I had a friend that got swept up in the fantasy in it, got disatisfied with life, and killed himself. Does this mean Dungeons and Dragons is dangerous and should be boycotted?
Husband (me) 39 Wife 36 Daughter 21 Daughter 19 Son 14 Daughter 10 Son 8 (autistic)
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I thouroughly enjoy how this conversation has put animated movies, Shakespere, and Dungeons and Dragons on an even field with Twilight and Harlequin romance novels.
I'm beginning to believe that in 200 years, Danielle Steele will have literature on par with, and as beloved as Macbeth.
Dunno. We'll see what my other source reveals...
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Dungeons and Dragons outshines them all, if you ask me.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Dungeons and Dragons outshines them all, if you ask me. I've only played RPG video games based off of D&D rule sets... and dealt a hand of Magic the Gathering or two...
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Mmmmmm .... Magic ......
Prisca and I used to play MtG, actually.
I tried to do a lot of tabletop RPGs 20 years ago, but I always preferred other systems over D&D, and could never get much interest for them from others.
Of course, we have six little up-and-coming potential gamers...
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Actually....
It might be fun to go grab some decks of some collectible card game to play when NGB and I do our lock-ins...
Though, I don't quite know how one would play strip Yu-gi-Oh...
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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