Clearly you have a problem with enforcing limits.

You can either tell yourself, "next time, it's for real"...or you can take the steps now.

It all depends on whether you want temporary peace (he's onboard, I assume things are calm) or long-term relief...

I don't think you messed up. I think you need to write a list as to what constitutes to you an AO. For example, write that he will not yell, slam his fist, hit any objects, kick something, curse, etc. If he gets mad, he needs to say "excuse me" and go take a walk. He needs to learn that point that gets him heated and not go there. If he violates this, then he can pack his bags and go.

Then you two should practice in all decisions start with "How do you feel about..."

Just be careful Z honey, trust your gut, you know when it's safest. Look into local resources to get some guidance on how to do what you need to do in the safest way and timing possible. I'm praying for you and your family. Don't kick yourself on your timing of anything, safety first.

My mom was really nervous about my safety when I filed. I had already calmly let my then-H know that I would involve the police if he put his hands on me again. That O&H I think was important in reminding myself I was safe. But each situation is different and you are the best judge of your own safety and that of your kids. My friend had her daughter stay with me at my house when her divorce went through so she would be there to have to see it if anything went awry. Her confidence knowing she was taking steps for her daughter's safety contributed positively to her situation. The fear itself can be part of the trigger, so if you can take steps to replace that with confidence in your plan, it contributes positively for all of you.

That's part of why I emphasized the UA time, too, to help re-humanize you in your H's eyes, helps with safety, too, recent good memories together, more incentive to keep the positive momentum going. A separation can give you the best shot at long term happiness together.

Zhamila, I really think you are getting great advice here.

Is there any way your husband would post to us?

Thank you for weighing in, NED. I was hoping you would, since you've been there and you understand what it looks like from the "inside."

I agree (in my head) that separation can give us the best shot at long-term happiness together. But when he told me he "can't" work on the marriage if we separate, I was afraid he meant it. I want a great marriage with him, not a divorce. But I just don't think it's going to happen until he gets some serious long-term help...and there is no incentive for him to do that while we're living together.

In fact this morning I asked if he'd checked out a certain site I'd mentioned to him. He had previously agreed, asked me to send him the link (2 days ago - I did). Well, as of this morning he hadn't looked at it, and told me he wouldn't have time even over his lunch break to check it out (even though he's told me before he just surfs the web and reads random news over lunch). I just silently looked at him (dead pan). I'm a little shocked by how quickly a tearful apology can turn into apathy. He checked himself and said, "If it's important to you, I'll read it today," and grabbed it on his Kindle right then. Though I was glad he did this, I am more concerned: If he doesn't pursue help on his own - without my prompting - he won't get better.

The old tightness around my heart, the old nervousness in my gut has started to come back. And the bone-weariness too. He's been very nice, etc....but I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. He is still the same man - just on tip-toe. That's not a sustainable place for him, nor for anyone. I want him to be able to "be himself," just an improved "himself."

I told him I wish he would (this morning) - but I understand if he doesn't want to. I don't think he wants to - sometimes the advice here is great, other times he thinks certain people just jump on the "drama" bandwagon and insert their oar unhelpfully, even unpleasantly. He isn't sure he wants to deal with some of the cutting, disrespectful remarks that occasionally crop up. I can't say I blame him - some very hurtful (uninformed, unhelpful) things can certainly be expressed here. Not everyone has the insight and empathy of the best posters.

Anyway, I've asked him several times, but I respect his hesitancy.

Thanks KT. I made that list on Monday. I'll share it with him again - I have shared it, but I know how hard it can be to remember things when I'm emotional, so I guess I'm not sure how much he remembers about the 'conditions' of staying. I sort of asked him yesterday morning, and he wasn't able to clearly articulate much beyond: No more AOs. I want SAFETY and RESPECT - and that part's not really getting through. I guess it's easier to remember the "Don'ts" than the "Do's"?

So he said no?

How about taking it to the private forums where Dr. Harley posts?

Did they ever answer your last email?

I think KT means a written list. Didn't you already have him sign one? Does he have a copy?

Safety and respect are pretty vague terms. Men especially need the dots a lot closer together than vague emotional terms. I like KT's suggestion of writing down the physical manifestations of anger and disrespect to give to your husband. Don't write down anything that cannot be seen or heard.

Right: he is not "enthusiastic" about posting.

And I thought we couldn't do those forums unless we buy the coaching program? (haven't even checked into it, but given that he didn't put forth effort during our $200/hr session with Steve, I don't really want to throw more $$ down a hole).

No, I haven't heard back from the Harleys. The radio is still playing re-runs so I'm just assuming they are out of town. They already give so much...I hope they are having a relaxing vacation or something - I wouldn't want them writing me if they're taking a break.

It's ~1k for the online program, and gives you coaching for a year.

How many sessions did you have with Steve?

Yes.

It's so easy to get lost in all this stuff - to think that somehow I haven't communicated clearly when in fact I have. He has chosen not to listen/understand/whatever. And I have chosen to let myself believe that I just need to communicate it "one more time."

I am feeling "stupider" by the minute.

That's right.

15 sessions - $3K and nothing to show for it (except clarity for myself, which I suppose is "priceless")

like I said, 'respect' and 'safety' are vague terms, so perhaps your communication isn't as clear as it could be? You never put your agreement here, but if you did post some of these things, we could help you clear them up. Markos used to post conversations, and comments from the board helped him see where he was taking them off-track.

The agreement was very clear.

One paragraph of the agreement we both signed:


And the Do's:

Would you say that you have abided by this agreement since it was written?