A reminder to posters to let the moderators do the moderating. If you have an issue with a post, please notify us rather than lecture other posters about their posting style. That is inappropriate and disruptive. Let the moderators do the moderating. Thank you.

Flowergirl. I am your husband from what you have explained. I could not get rid of the past either in many respects. Trust me when I say you are doing something that 'for him' is making it not go away. Other here are more familiar with where to send you to read up on it. I hear that you are trying, but you are apparently not doing it right. Listen hear and read.

Since you are going to ignore my question about the basis of MB .... Allow me to assist.

It's his LOVE BANK that you need to pay attention to. Not yours.

The basis for MB is the LOVE BANK.
You fill his love bank by meeting his intimate ENs the way he wants them met.
You avoid making love bank withdrawals by avoiding LOVE BUSTERS.

Remember, I asked you to down load the FREE questionnaires !!!!!!

Hint #1:

You are not making love bank deposits when you try to "say the right things" or "get through to him".

It's not working! By your own admission, it's NOT working.
So, do something completely different.
What should you do?
You'd know if you'd bothered to do the questionnaires, as advised.

Take care.

Can you describe the anger? Is it an "angry outburst" (AO) as Dr. Harley would describe, or is it a complaint/getting upset at continued behaviours that make him feel unprotected/insecure? There is a difference, one that wayward wives often gloss over.

If it is an actual AO, has this improvement come after you discontinued phone counseling? Or has the AOs not been dealt with via MarriageBuilders?

TFG. It is nice to see you posted again. I am speaking for myself, but probably for others too. I know a lot of these posts had to be VERY hard to read b/c it they were SO straight forward. We don't know you or what he has done to you that you have had to deal with. We were responding to you, your writing, your post by what we read. I was not trying to just slam you or take out my anger on you!! I read a lot of anger, excuses, ignoring of your H's feelings in your post. The truth is hard to hear. I hated it too!! I want to ask you to PLEASE look again at what was written with out any pride or ego and just try to see the truth where there is truth. It is probably the most difficult thing to admit those faults in yourself, but if YOU can see them, own them and decide that you don't want to act in those behaviors anymore, then YOU will be on the journey of becoming the BEST YOU that you can be!!! We all get resentful, act out of that until we learn better. That is where I am now. I love the quote, "When you know better, you do better." We know that there are two sides to every story. I hope you see that those here ALSO know that by the evidence you presented, you have some boundary issues. It is also very perplexing that you would ever put yourself in the position of having ANY familiarity AT ALL with another man. That is EXACTLY how affairs start. Friends, until that friendship turns into something else. Those here WANT YOU TO SEE, that if you give any time and attention to another man, even if it is innocent, they can easily meet EN's that your H isn't. It is a VERY slippery slope. You know that since you made the mistake before. I knew even before MB's, not to be open, familiar or have friendships of any kind with another man. So, please don't stay in any denial on this fact. Anyway, you were hurting your H more than you knew or wanted to know. The goal here it to save your marriage, right? It stings to have harsh truths told to you, but you did seem to be oblivious to how you sounded and how much these things have hurt your H. over the years. You have to see that, own it and change it. If you do, your marriage will be better for it! If we were wrong on some things, I am sorry for that. I do believe that given some time and true open honesty on your part in owning these things, you will look back and be glad that people here that don't know you, were caring enough to take their time to help you see where you can begin.

I am sorry you feel distraught, I realize you are in quite a situation. I don't see any posters here whose desire is to bash you, but rather want you to truly "get it". You can't affect a difference until you understand what has gone wrong and your part in it. It's true we don't know all of your history the last 14 years, but it's up to you to let us know of anything pertinent. We can only respond to what you let us know, and that has been the basis for our posts.

You can't "make" your husband anything. You can't make him forgive, can't make him change, can't make him love you, can't...well, you get the picture. All you can do is work on yourself and take with you the lessons learned.

Personally, I would start with prayer, because only God can soften hearts, but you have to understand, God and your husband are not obligated to do anything with regards to this situation, it was of your making and sometimes we just have to live with the consequences, ALL of us. Anything less than that is purely grace that we don't deserve and certainly can't expect or count on.

If you feel any of us are bashing you, please notify the moderator or block us. You're right, you don't have to listen to anything any of us say. But consider the words of a couple of posters here that have told you that sometimes the truth strikes home and is painful, yet it's the truth that empowers us to learn and change.

The beauty of the MB approach is its universality. It works over the full range of marital situations. The resources are all here, at your fingertips. Stop thinking that you need to reinvent a totally new approach to address your particular situation. Educate yourself and then apply these methods. This is what your husband wants, or he wouldn't send you here. If you do, the time will come when you will look back on your first post and say to yourself "I can't believe I defended opposite-sex friendships".

MB posters... or TheFlowerGirl please feel free to tell me to stay off this thread. I am TheFlowerGirl's husband. I have come to a point where I literally feel nothing emotionally. In desperation I pointed my wife here when she told me I was threatening her by saying I wanted to leave the marriage because I was not safe. I guess here is what I would want to say... I will gladly create my own thread if this is what I am supposed to do. I will never read this my wife's thread if this is what I am supposed to do and I keep my word.
TheFlowerGirl is the most wonderful mother you would ever know in your life. She is the finest neighbor, co-worker, student and friend anyone could ever have. She is very beautiful.
Truthfully, as a wife, she I am sure will make someone she loves and cares about feel wonderful. I have come to the conclusion that I never was and never will be that person. The story Gone With The Wind comes to mind but many of you will not know what I am talking about with that characterization. But I am right there "Frankly Scarlet......."
She is sensitive (as you can see above...), very sensitive and years of me raising my voice to try and make a point took their toll on her. It never worked. If anything it did the opposite of what I hoped for. That is exactly what angry outbursts do. Likewise, years of me living in agony over her choices has left me emotionless and that is extremely scary and I am far beyond being afraid. I live in terror. And I have. Only the realization that I was going to die if I continued to live in this circumstance brought me to realize that I have to either mandate change or leave our marital home. I have resisted Plan B because long ago in this situation Steve H recommended that I not and because of our 13 year old son. And the posts about Men don't leave your home on this board also held me down.
Folks, I have plan A'd for so long what I really did was continue a pattern of enabling (sp?). I can't do it anymore. In my opinion only, Counseling with Steve H failed because my wife stated that she felt she got nothing out of it. I think counseling fails according to MB as long as the outside of marriage ea's continue. But I Could be wrong too.
I am 100% responsible for my pattern of verbal angry outbursts in our marriage. Some of you here might not have thought they were out of the ordinary, but TheFlowerGirl is very gentle and is easily traumatized by shouting, or confrontation and I knew those things and did it anyway for years. I have worked for three years in therapy and with a private group to eliminate the pattern and habit. I have made a change and I know it shows but I also can accept if it is too late for TheFlowerGirl.
If I do anything (such as saying I can't live in this marriage this way anymore)that expresses the honest truth, I become the bad guy.
Recently if finally hit me that (1) I have been receiving tremendous mental abuse over this issue of opposite sex friendships (or EA's) for years and (2) that I have been accepting blame for getting frustrated and shouting about it when in many instances I was often the victim. And I refuse to be a victim any longer. I will not be martyr in a marriage where I give up my abiity to feel safe in a bad trade for a hope that I will be loved any longer. I am going to survive this with or without TheFlowerGirl.
Be gentle with her. She can't hear if she is hit over the head. I assure you, I tried that tactic verbally for years and failed. Her self defenses are way to strong.
You guys and gals here were my last hope.
sincerely

ReadyAbout

("Ready about" is the command given on an old sailing ship right before it changes tacks or direction.... hopefully the analogy is obcvious).

Me: 57
Her:51
Ours:13

Welcome ReadyAbout!

I suggest you start your own separate thread for now, and we can all work together. You both are in a position to have a good marriage, it will just take the time and work.

Good !!

Rock bottom in an extremely unhealthy marriage is good. Only place you can go is up now.

Want to learn how to rebuild the right way?

Hi ReadyAbout, welcome to Marriage Builders. I can fully understand your desperation if you have been dealing with this for almost your entire marriage. It must be very hurtful when your spouse continues behavior she knows is hurtful. That means it is being done purposefully.

In the articles you have seen advising men not to leave their homes, that does not mean forever. Obviously, if you choose to divorce or separate, you would have to move. And keep in mind that Dr Harley does not believe in staying in loveless, abusive marriages. When a spouse refuses to stop hurting you and refuses to meet your needs, you are not obliged to stay in that marriage and continue to be abused.

I found this quote from Dr Harley that you might find helpful:

I hope your wife does make a decision to change, but if she doesn't, you have other options available and do not have to stay in a marriage with a spouse who treats you so badly.

The last thing I heard before getting hit in the head by the boom.

All the tools for both of you are here.

TFG, if well-aimed 2x4's cause you to cut and run, you aren't ready to grow up and be a loving, fulfilled, protected and protective wife who is deeply in love with her husband.

The path to recovery is a narrow one, but well worth the work and effort! Some of the people whose posts you resent the most are the ones who are the happiest and best recovered. All of us would like to see you and your husband succeed.

Hang around, and you'll soon realize that what looks to you like anger and bitterness, is in fact love and care for a complete stranger.

Except you're not a stranger, not really. We know you because we've walked through your story, either as you or your husband. We've been in your shoes, or his shoes.

In this way, you're not as special and different as you think, and that's a good thing. It's why MB can work in any M, because the same formula works in every country on earth, and in any culture.

Whatever things your husband did, even if they were TERRIBLE, mean nothing when it comes to you changing your behavior. You can't stop him from doing anything, and you can't change the past. All you can do is start right now to change your own behavior, regardless of what he does now, or has done in the past. That's where you start, not even with well-justified complaints about what you've been through. You start with you, and start with the present.

Stop it RA. You are still enabling your WW. She is a big girl...stop with the excuses.


No one is verbally abusing your WW or having AOs towards her.



Then stand back. She has already run over you enough.

Welcome to MB.

x 2

MelodyLane and other posters. I will begin a thread of my own.
Entitled "Nobody Wins" and I will copy and paste my previous post on this thread there.

Thank you.

Hi FlowerGirl, I'm fairly new to these forums (few months), mostly interested in MB 101 and After Divorce. I had never visited the Surviving an Affair forum, but out of curiosity I did today, and yours was the first (and so far only) post I've read. I don't have enough experience to give you detailed advice, but I will tell you a bit about my story that might give you some perspective.

When I was married, my xW exhibited inappropriate boundaries with other men. At the time, I wasn't aware of the concept of boundaries and have only learned that term since I've been exploring this website. I did not like her relationships with other men, which were work-related, but I didn't know how to justify my feelings to her. Her argument was that I didn't trust her. Since I had no words to defend myself, my thinking was cast in terms of her argument. "Why didn't I trust her," I thought, "what's wrong with me?" I tried to convince myself that I should trust her and not be upset by her interactions with other men, but I couldn't get the feeling that I didn't like what she was doing to go away. The fact is, I DID trust her, but I still didn't want her interacting with other men the way she did, and I didn't know how to explain that.

(Fast forward many years) In counseling during the initial stages of divorce recovery, my therapist wanted to help me make sense of what happened in my failed marriage. When we talked about my feelings concerning my xW and other men, I brought up what I just wrote to you, that I didn't know how to make sense of my trusting her while at the same time not wanting her to be so friendly with other men. My therapist helped me understand that what hurt me the most, was that my xW didn't care about my feelings. When I unearthed that sentiment, it was "eureka!" My therapist had hit the nail on the head. The feeling that my xW didn't care about my feelings was incredibly damaging to my psychological state, and I eventually checked out emotionally from my marriage, which it sounds like your husband either has done or is in the process of doing.

Several posters in your thread have said this very thing to you, that by having interactions with other men that you know your husband is uncomfortable with, you are dismissing his feelings. As I've recently learned since discovering this webiste, the care of each other's feelings is one of the core components of Marriage Builders philosophy. If you want to have a great marriage, you must put each others feelings at the forefront of your attention. You must recognize that pretty much everything you do will affect your spouse either positively or negatively. If you think in terms of "what I want" or "why can't I do such and such," you're not thinking about your spouse.

It sounds like your husband has issues too which he'll need to work on, and it sounds like he has started. My only piece of advice to you is to realize that your actions, innocent as they may seem, can wreak havoc with your husband's emotions. I wish you the best as you work to restore your marriage.

"Wild horses could not run off a wayward who was serious about recovery." --Melodylane

Much less a bunch of anonymous posters on a marriage board.

Getting lots of info here, and like many first time posters, you will have to go back and reread it all as you take the time to figure out what has been said.

Sounds like you H loves and respects you very much,(yeah RA,get your own thread), and we can see your sensitivity and inteligence from the beginning.

Would it be too much to say this is part of the human package? That it takes more to develop deep meaningful lifelong relationships?

Someone said, "When you know better you will do better"

How about putting that sensitivity to work for you and your husband

A short story from my past when I was really messed up from my first marrige at 18, when 1st wife also fell victim to male "freinds", outside marriage
I too stayed and insisted I would trust her. She was young, and I thought it would pass along with my emotions about it. The marriage ended at my insistence after she left me and my 1st son for an affair, and got knocked up by some guy at a party, and had a child by him. I tried to save the marriage but she continued to have wrong relationships, and started telling me I was, "Too seriuos", and didn't like to have "fun"

A couple of months after separation, and this is the point BTW, that I bring this up...
I was at a friends house, and feeling bad cause I was just too sensitive, when somebody called me a "headcase". My immediate reply was, " Well you've got to have a head on your shoulders for it to be a case"

My quick wit and sensitivity might have made me intelligent, but without proper guidance I went on to make the mistakes that led to another marriage full of misconceptions and different problems.

Your H has told us you were smart and sensitive, and he wants the best for you.

God is he an enabler

Time to put that smart and sensitive brain to work on what is most important in your life

If it's not your Husband and marriage, what then?

Figure out what you want, this site helps marriages,and carreers, public appearance, all fall second place, as you will find as you absorb what is written here

Your husband is not a quitter, he is just plain tired of fighting a losing battle