Clean up your side of this marriage.
Do not be the source of his pain.

Welcome to MB, KeepLearning.

You must have missed this:

"I will ashamedly tell you that I became involved with this ex-lover while I was married to my first husband. I left my first husband and divorced while in a relationship with this man. My fianc� was aware of this history. Despite a near break up after this incident."


She cheated on her first husband with the x-lover. This is not 'actions innocent as they may seem'. Quite the contrary. Her H has every reason to feel the way he feels.

To BlackRaven: Excuse me but who do you think you are? You dont know anything about me and your comments show me just how uneducated you are! Trying to tell me that I am not grown up enough to love.??!! *And your comment to my h that I have already ran over him enough? * Oh... feed the fury!(Don't even go there!)My spouse has had what you call EA's too. People like you have no business giving others advise. You are not on here to help, you evidently have been burned and you are a bad example of helping others if you want to call it that! Why are you on here anyway????? You don't know anything about my marriage! And no, if it appears to you and others that I have continued to have opposite sex friends for 14 years then you are wrong. You have been mislead. I wont go any further than that. I will find help elsewhere in Marriage Builders. I don't find this helpful. I recognize what I have done wrong in the past but you all dont know anything about my spouse either. If you think that the A outbursts for 15 years have been about EA's you are all wrong again. The AO's could be over anything! Enough said. IT's too painful to go into all of it.

Flower Girl,
Again, we know what you have told us, it's up to you to give us pertinent information so we can make informed responses. Raven has helped a lot of people on this forum. It sounds like if someone doesn't agree with you and feel sorry for you, you get defensive instead of listening to what they have to say. That's your call, you can learn and recover your marriage...or not. Like I said before, you can notify a moderator if you think you're being bashed. We don't see it that way, we look at it as "telling it like it is."

Do not correct a scoffer, lest he hate you; Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you. Proverbs 9:8 Which are you? I'm not trying to get smart, I'm wanting you to contemplate that.

What exactly in Blackraven's posts has brought on this angry outburst? I read through her comments and see nothing disagreeable. What exactly has set you off?

Do you not understand how upsetting your poor boundaries with men is to your husband? It sounds to me like he has been telling you this for YEARS. And it has never stopped.

If he has stopped his angry outbursts, why would you not stop your abusive and thoughtless behavior?

This is a very interesting thread. I see many here trying to tell FlowerGirl what they wished they could convey to their ex-spouses when they were treated poorly. What could have saved their marriages.

FlowerGirl, some of this stuff hurts, and I suspect you feel attacked (because that is what my wife would feel), but if you can get through that reaction and listen you can save your marriage.

In the spirit of trying to help you see how your husband feels allow me to give you a little of my history:

My wife doesn't have very good boundaries with other men. She ended up talking to an old friend and hiding it from me (this is the only requirement for an inappropriate relationship). After a while this grew and they ended up having an affair. Obviously my trust was broken and I was really angry/sad about the situation.

After the affair she realized what she did was wrong, and wanted to work it out with me. I was really happy that she realized that the other relationship was a fairy tale and that it was destroying everybody involved. I wanted to forgive her and move on and would have done anything to make that happen, but she continued to have poor boundaries with other men. She would have them on her facebook page, talk to guys that hit on her, and even complain about me to one of them.

I asked that she block them and put boundaries in place, but she told me that she needed the freedom to do whatever she wanted and that I was controlling. Our day to day interactions deteriorated. She signed up for college and started spending a lot of time away from home. At one point my brother drove past her in the car with another man. She insisted it was just a study partner, and while I believed her, I was still very angry and hurt that she had such little regard for my feelings, especially after what she did.

I wanted her to slow down on college and spend more time together to try and build some trust and take care of our hurting children that were in the middle of our whirlwind. She refused. She said that she needed to get out and make something of herself and again, that I was controlling.

Now we are divorcing. She thinks it's because I couldn't trust her and because I want to control her. She tells me that if I would just stop being critical and controlling that we would have been fine.

Here is the point. It's not about me controlling her, or what she does. The thing that killed our relationship wasn't the affair, it was that she did some extremely hurtful things, then continued to act very independent even though I had no trust, which again was very hurtful. I tried for a year to help her understand that what I needed was for her to care about my feelings and change some things that would allow the past to fade, but she was too busy being right and doing what she wanted.

Now, she has the right to do what she wants, but I also have the right to not put up with it and leave. I'll never be happy with someone that refuses to even acknowledge the fact that their actions hurt others.

From what I can tell, Flowergirl, you are in the same situation. Your husband WILL get over the past, but only if you make changes to gain his trust. If someone says nice hair on facebook you have a choice. You can protect the posters feelings and not tell him that you aren't interested in complements, or you can protect your husbands feelings and send him a private message saying thanks but no thanks, please don't post on my wall again.

If you keep shutting down other men, stop talking to other men, and respecting your husband as someone who has feelings, then things will change.

If the problem is that your husband is just crazy, rather than you just have poor boundaries, why would you torment a crazy person?

It seems to me that the answer would be to STOP having opposite sex friendships if it torments your "crazy" husband.

Do you get some type of enjoyment out of tormenting crazy people?

Would you agree to stop tormenting your crazy husband if it would save your marriage? Because it appears that your husband is quite done with being tormented.

Am not sure what you're referring to, please use the quotes.

And nope, I told him all I needed to. I'm telling her what SHE needs to hear.

Hi, FlowerGirl - I hope you are not gone yet :-) I almost never post here, but decided to log on to reply to this one, as I think I can empathize with you. I used to get angry at my husband (then boyfriend) because I saw him as being overly jealous, possessive and controlling. He used to have daily nightmares about me and other guys and certain triggers would send him into a deep depression for days. As I never cheated on him physically or emotionally, I thought this was ungrounded and it drove me crazy. Today my husband is a changed man, and we are extremely happily married, but it didn't happen without effort.

When my husband got to know me, I was just out of a two year sexual on-off relationship with someone I never should have been involved with in the first place. I didn't realize that I kept going back to my ex solely because of my bad boundaries. I was also an addict to an online messaging board where I saw it as a bit of a hobby to "innocently" flirt with people (I always made it very clear to the guys that I wasn't serious,so I felt there was nothing wrong with what I was doing).

Lastly, there was a married man, a older family friend of my parents' who used to stop by at the shop where I worked for a cup of coffee. As I was good friends with his wife, I never saw any harm in it, even if he sometimes confided in me. I was shocked when this married man showed up drunk at my apartment a year later, to profess his great love to me. It angered me and I refused to break the friendship with this wife and family and decided not to tell anyone, as it would destroy the family friendship and it was not my fault after all... I was never interested in this man.

My now husband knew about all of these things and every time he encountered one of these guys, he would have nightmares of me sleeping with them. I mean, I never even had ANYTHING sexual with the married guy, so I saw his dreams as lies and felt his feelings were irrelevant, as I was innocent. Even me laughing over the phone with someone triggered him and I got sooooo frustrated as he wasn't even in the picture when all those things happened, so why should my past affect him?

To me it felt like the person I loved most in the world always thought the worst of me. I always accused him of thinking I am a b*tch, while I felt he should trust me. I would never cheat on him, and he should know that. My sisters and family also thought my husband was overly paranoid, especially with regards to the married man, and my husband caught me trash talking about him to them.

He also caught me talking about his jealousy to a male facebook friend, and immediately saw it as me cheating, while I did not agree with him, and kept replying that I am sorry I hurt him, but I haven't done anything wrong. I was in distress and was looking for advice (obviously the other guy told me to dump my husband). It didn't help much that my sister later started to date this guy...

My husband was so depressed and hurt, that in my frustration, I ended up taking a lot of extraordinary precautions to prove to him I can be trusted, without even realizing it.
* I broke all contact with previous male friends
* I deleted the instant messaging service
* I deleted all non-relative male facebook contacts and still ignore any friend requests from males.
* I asked my ex never to come close to the shop again
* I told the wife of the married man everything and broke all contact with their family (to great disgust of my own family members, who still maintain the friendship and use their place as a venue for important birthdays, which we then just refuse to attend)
* I don't discuss our marital problems (which we don't have anymore) with anybody but my husband
* We moved 1000 miles away from my hometown where my ex and the married man live, which also means 1000 miles away from my parents.
* I try to avoid alone conversations with other men, and keep telling the world what an awesome husband I have.
* My facebook and email accounts are always open for my husband to view, as well as my mobile phone as I have nothing to hide, and I want to make sure he knows it.

Today I have the happiest, most trusting husband in the world, even though my job involves a lot of contact with other people. I can hardly believe that there was a time when both my husband and I felt semi-suicidal due to fights about me being too friendly with other men.

Again, I am TFG's husband. I had an EA in my first marriage. I did not realize that is what I did until I came here. I developed feelings for someone. I did not act on them but I didn't think there was anyting wrong with having a "friend." I was wrong. I never needed a "friend" when I entered this marriage. When contacted by this woman during my marriage to flowergirl I told FlowerGirl about it right away, I answered a work related business question and then told this friend that my wife would not be comfortable with me talking or writing to her. No more contact. I had read Dr. Harley by then.
I have had no EA in this marriage. Not even close. I did once have a woman who worked for me who was a friend of TheFlowerGirl make an advance at me at work. In fact she intimated that TheFlowerGirl was involved with someone in the process. I brushed off the advance and actually changed the reporting relationship of the woman involved so that I did not have to deal with her. I did not tell my wife about this advance that I brushed off until three years ago when I read Dr. H. Two years ago I had a woman who worked for me try and bring me her personal problems. I sent her to personnel and they arranged counseling and I refuse to have any kind of relationship with people at work or elsewhere. I manage people for a living and refuse to have a meeting in my office with a woman alone, I don't have lunch with anyone and have never so much as had coffee alone with anyone. I do not attend after hours events etc. So no, I categorically deny any attempt to suggest that I have had an EA during this marriage. Why would I lie? I have already admitted to verbal abuse which is a far worse issue.
In fact I find this comment from TFG a typical ticking bomb set for me to explode over. I won't.
I know it is called misdirection. And this last post was a blatant mistruth.
Folks, as I said.... This was my last hope. I am not asking for sympathy.
BUt it is obvious that It isn't worth your effort and sadly just as I have been saying... it isn't worth mine anymore either.

Me: 57
She:51
DS:13

This is puzzling to me, dec. Can you not find the articles and concepts on this site?

Chobitz,
Thank you for sharing your story. It sounds like you have employed the EP necessary for your marriage, and what a great outcome you have as a result! I hope TFG is still reading and reads your story. All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. 1 Corinthians 10:23
IOW, we can selfishly adhere to our "rights" but the BETTER thing would be to make the other person feel and be safe, and that will generate the better outcome as well.

We all have a "right" to make our spouse's life a living hell, and our spouse has the right to leave.

Welcome RA. Please strat your own thread.

Flowergirl, your behaviour has bust his lovebank down to zero. You are in JUST the right place to learn how to build it back up again.

The problem is your husband stayed with you when you continued to bond with other men emotionally. MB would have advised him to separate so as to avoid AOs at your behaviour, and to avoid losing the feeling of love for you as he watched you bond with other men.

Dr H is very intolerant of AOs and tells BSs to control themselves short term, negotiate and if all else fails to separate so they don't lose control while suffering infidelity.

The good news is that if you start paying him compensation for that painful time, it can be undone and his love renewed.

The first thing he needs is for all the male friends to go.

Then he needs openness and transparency from you so his shaken faith in you is restored. You have hidden things and had EAs. Scheduling a poly will show that you have stopped hiding things and that you are now an open book.

Great post, Indie!

Thanks, KayC :-) Back then it felt like a sacrifice, and that I was losing my identity as a sociable, friendly person, but today I see that my husband was actually saving me from myself and my own bad boundaries.

Sometimes it's hard to see when you're in it.

TheFlowerGirl, you came here to get help saving your marriage. Did you think that we were going to tell you that everything that you have been doing was perfect, and your H had to change? Did you expect us to NOT point out where YOU could improve, if saving your marriage is truly your goal? Did you think this was going to be easy? This is HARD WORK.

Now, with the past marriages, BOTH of you were guilty of having affairs. You, however, are the one who is guilty of having EAs in THIS marriage, and the MANY posters on this thread have been expressing to you that your MINDSET is what needs changing. You need to understand that these past "relationships" that you have been having with these men, outside of your marriage, have been VERY inappropriate. You need to clean up your side of the fence, even if this marriage ends. If you continue to look at these "relationships" with men as okay, any future relationships will be just as doomed as this one.

I'm me last I looked.


I do know something about you...you wrote it!


I didn't say that to you. I agreed with the comment that another poster made and that is not what she said either. It is obvious that you are too angry and defensive that you can't even read the posts correctly much less hear what posters are telling you...unless they are what you want to hear.


Considering he's at the end of his rope and ready to divorce you, I think that is a simple truth.


You are the only one getting fired up.


Then he would be wrong for that if that is the case. Will take it up with him.


People like me? Hmmmmm

Funny how I can't know anything about you and your marriage (even though you posted about it) yet you somehow know me...interesting.

There is a feature to put a poster on ignore. Feel free to put me on ignore since you don't like looking in the mirror.


I know what you posted about it...as well as what your BH posted.


Mislead by who. Mislead by your own words????


Good luck.