When I ask if you've read the Basic Concepts, I mean have you read these pages on this site:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

(Ten Basic concepts to read)

That's the link he's referring to

Great clip on POJA. Tell us what you think.
Radio clip on POJA
Segment #2

ShipAtSea,

Who takes the first step? We both have, many, many times, but I�m really not here to keep score or point fingers.

Since you can only control yourself directly it's on you to make the changes without any expectation of return from your Wife. When I first started reading here I came to that conclusion rather quickly, if you improve yourself you gain no matter what your W does or does not do.

Read some of the BW, betrayed wife, threads here to get an idea how your W feels, this will really help you gain more empathy for your W.

Did the OW you had the affairs with married and did you apologize to their BHs?

God Bless
Gamma

Ship, where did you go?

HoldHerHand,
Neither of us are great at focusing on the UA. We each will express ideas and apply them for a bit, but it soon comes unwound. It seems to me that I do not get credit from her for what I do initiate- very frustrating.
I've only ever traveled for work once in my whole life, and that was a couple of months ago for four days. I think we have careful protective rules in place to keep either of us out of tempting or uncomfortable situations. However, when she goes out, she will usually come home very late- after 1am the other day. I'm usually the one calling or texting her to see if she is OK and asking when she will come home- rarely does she make the first call. Based on her posts, I have a strong huntch that she would be on here blogging and getting advice to leave me if I did that! After I last texted her the other night, she finally crawled in bed an hour and a half later; I had to be at work at 7am. I think it's only reasonable that we apply the rules and boundaries to both sides of the marriage- if it's a good idea for on spouse, it is surely a good idea for both.

Markos,
I agree that we should always be respectful. I disagree that I cannot express my frustration at someone who has just cut me off and put my life and family in danger. Is calling that person an idiot really an AO or DJ?? It is not directed at or an attempt to punish my wife.

Where was she at 1am and she wasn't with you?

Markos,
I believe the chemical response happens even when you "control" your anger. Loosing it does not make you insane, it just means you've lost control, perhaps given your control over to irrationality as you said. I think we pretty much all look like idiots when we begin acting/expressing/talking out of control, but I don't buy the insanity line. I don't think I have an AO problem, but I will work on sharing my beliefs and feelings before they become so exagerated. According to what I've read on this site, we should ALL just go ahead and buy second homes if at every other AO we are advised to kick our spouse out of the house. If I took the advice from some of these posters (perhaps posers since they give advice on one thread while admiting to a crumbling marriage on another- mark me down for one DJ, please) then I'd have to kick my wife to the curb. And then we'd just trade places every other week!
I can respect different opinions, but I will never allow someone to ignorantly, haphazardly, carelessly, or otherwise advise my wife to kick me out of the house or visa versa. I also strongly disagree with the way people throw around the term "abuse." Be careful people- these are people lives not interactive soap opera entertainment!

Markos,
I've read the Basic Concepts and How To Make Your Wife Happy.

Gamma,
Not married.
I've read many posts and my wife has been very clear over the years- she doesn't really bring it up anymore- about how much I hurt her. Is there a specific link to a BW thread?

BrainHurts,
She was at a McDonald's with my sister and female cousin, as far as I know. I was at home with the kids. I suppose at that time of night and with me sitting at home clueless, she could have been anywhere. She came home after midnight from another female friend's house just a week before. When my text at 8:12 went unanswered I asked at 10:45 when she would be home, she finally answered at 11:49 "So sorry!!! I didnt' realize how late it is. Wrapping up." Needless to say, the rules do not always seem to apply to both of us.
What do we call this? Emotional abuse? Psychological abuse? This is a pattern. Do I ask her to leave now or am I to wait for something else? **Sarcastically joking- see my earlier post.**

I would first ask; how does this address the source of my frustration?

Does yelling at your windshield from the inside cause the other person to be a more considerate driver? Does it eliminate other inconsiderate drivers from your life?

Probably not.

Did ---> I <---- take the needed action to protect myself and my family from a temporary threat?

Yes.

Was it effective?

Well, if I can yell at my windshield, I would think so!


So then, is there any logical or rational reason to yell at my windshield?

Nope.


Is "expressing my frustration," therefore, an exercise which adds any positive impact to my long-term well-being?

Nope.


It does, however, have a negative impact on my wife and children, who are watching daddy yell at the windshield like a lunatic. My wife and children, who are also in this vehicle that just diverted disaster, that are also frustrated and frightened, and are trapped in said vehicle with some lunatic screaming at the windshield.


Angry people are threatening. Anger is threatening - it is an aggresive response to threat. The intention is motivation to END THE THREAT, and usually do so BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE.

Therefore, for those who may not feel able to defend themselves from those means, anger is frightening... it invokes a sense of terror. In fact, fright and terror are part of the intention of expressions of anger - a fleeing threat is no threat at all.



So, if you enjoy terrorizing your family... well then, by all means continue "expressing your frustration." Just don't be surprised when they flee... permanently.

Hi, Ship, thanks for coming back, man. I have a lot of respect for folks who willingly go to the one place that *will* hold their feet to the fire, because the poster who post to you care that much about marriage and families. And care that much about your marriage and your family. I want you and Anointed to succeed. You may recognize me from reading posts on her thread, I don't know. I *know* the Basic Concepts here on the site can help you have a marriage that lasts a lifetime. A happy, joyous life together, one that teaches your kids to have happy families of their own one day.

My house has a long term peace that has kept us strong as we were struck by one tragedy after another. I want that for you and your family, and I believe in you that you all can get there.

You can see I registered long ago. I made lifetime friends with several of the ladies I met here. I've met them IRL with their families, years after the crisis points that originally brought them here. I'm the only one out of these folks whose marriage didn't make it. The rest have thriving, happy marriages. They were faced with career struggles really similar to the ones you two are facing. The job market isn't cut out right now to help families, I know. There is so much pressure to come in early and leave late. We had a layoff just this week where I work. Let me tell you Ship these folks I know IRL now have found ways to deal with these pressures that work long-term. They are happy with one another and their grown kids are doing great, making them proud. IIRC Markos has met the Harleys in person and they too have generations of happy families.

And the tools are easier than you think. Think to the folks you know IRL who are happily married 30+ years, and this is the things they are doing already. Spending 15 hours a week doing their favorite things together, this builds so much with no effort. Familiarity, trust, good will towards one another. That sense of looking forward to seeing your best friend.

I'll let it rest now, but I just wanted to leave you in closing, this does work, you can do this, and the journey is fun and easy and happy.

Zhamila, you read Ship's thread, too, I hope. I wrote this for you and your H, too. I'm praying for both of your families. Please know I care. And so do the many others that post to you. We want you to succeed. (((Hugs)))

Thanks NED! You're the best.

HoldHerHand,
Well, it is a bit of an emotional release valve, like crying I suppose. Is there any logical or rational reason for tears of sadness, frustration, or anger? For that matter, is there any logical or rational reason for emotions? The effectiveness and positive impact is in the release. I will watch my language during that release.
I would hope that my familiy would not think that the man who potentially just saved their lives is a lunatic for calling a bad driver an idiot. I rarely scream or yell.
Now we agree on the "insane" label. Anyone who will do something "BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE" could potentially be out of their mind. I don't have an anger management problem any more than my wife, and I don't think she needs to seek counselling or move out of the house.
I agree that anger CAN envoke terror. Do you really believe that calling people names while driving is meant to express fright and terror?
If someone were truly terrorized in their home, then they should leave and seek a safe haven, possible permanently. That's not happening in this house.

Things seem to be getting off track. I disagree with some of these definitions but I don't disagree with many of the principles. There should be safety in a marriage and in a home. I am not in favor of yelling at people, especially my family. In the rare instance that my wife and I enter a heated arguement, I believe that she is usually in the lead. I will take it upon myself to disappate or redirect the exchange.
My wife has picked up on some of the definitions and ideas on this website. She implies that a heated exchange is abuse. I am very offended by the implication that I abuse my family in any way. That's a major LB for me. And it's a major LB to be told that I should leave my own home, the one I work hard to provide to my family. Quite frankly, if a spouse want to get away, then I guess they are free to leave; that does not, however, give them permission to kick their spouse out of their home.

Dr. Harley's article, "Am I Trivializing the Term Abuse?":

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5067d_qa.html

Ship,

What EPs do both of you have in place?

Is it an EP for her to stay out that late of night?

BrainHurts,

Help me out. What's an EP???

Extraordinary Precautions.

A list of precautions for each spouse.