Yup.

I feel burnt out. Its the highs that keep me going, and of course the small efforts H makes. He does make efforts. But I know I don't need to explain the difference to you between effort and effort.

We are taking a 9 day vacation, starting Saturday. However, it is a family vacation where we will get no UA time, none. Which was the reason for our extended childless weekend this last weekend, to get some strong UA time in and get in a good place before we left for our 'real' vacation. But, we squandered it. So now we leave for 9 days already in the hole.

IDK anything anymore. Am I being too hard on H? Am I expecting too much of him? Am I not recognizing his efforts?

Am I just some resentful, bitter old B who has unreachable expectations for him? Am I not being a good enough cheerleader?

He has made progress. When is it enough, or not enough?

Or am I just continuing to waste my time, day after day, year after year on a hopeless cause?

The summer is almost coming to an end. Its scary.

I really thought he would use this summer to turn things around. I really did. I thought I would be able to come back here with some grand news of recovery.

Last night he was in this bright, chipper mood. IDK why. He is NEVER in a bright, chipper mood anymore. We had a little IC time and he talked all about how he had just woken up and realized how he had to take control of his life. Not let my emotions, our situation, get him down. Be positive. Be energetic. Be the rock. He said he just needed time to become more 'self aware' (or something like that). I said, 'you have had 2 yrs.' He said, 'please don't come at me.' What I wanted to say is, I'm not waiting anymore. You are going to have plenty of time to become self aware, because you will be by yourself. But I didn't.

What I was thinking during his soliloquy is about all the posters who are wayward and need to find themselves, go to IC, explore their childhood, etc. How MelodyLane will tell them that their childhood is irrelevant to fixing their marriage.

After awhile of listening to him talk, I asked him if he would be willing to start his own thread. He said, 'um, no, well maybe, IDK. I'm not a poster.' I explained that because we have such poor communication, and I feel like I cannot tell him something without him saying I am DJing him, or 'coming at him,' or whatever, it might work better for him to get fellow MBer feedback instead.

He offered to do the online program when we get back from vacation, if I wanted to. Do I do this? Or do I just say, summers over, you had your chance.

He was really sweet last night. Tried to initiate SF, I think. I didn't respond. No games, just didn't want to. Too much complication associated with it, I don't think I could even enjoy it right now. And that saying a lot for me, I have a very good ability to disassociate emotion and sex, in general. Left me a sweet note on my computer this morning. I am the one being a lump of coal right now. Clearly.

But, everybody was right. Since I have started to become disinterested in SF, he is initiating more. Sorry but with where I'm at, it sure doesn't seem like much of a win.

I think the "exposure is also for support for the BS" statement can be broken down a bit - if one really wants to consider why exposure is an important part of recovery. It's not only to provide emotional support in terms of "we're here for you and back you up," but also to provide support for accountability.

Is accountability, "we won't enable infidelity?" That's part of it, for sure. It's also having to look other people - people you care about and respect - in the eye, knowing you need to atone for what you've done wrong. That brings remorse - and hopefully repentance - unless someone is still foggy. There's just something about knowing these people know that makes you feel bad for doing bad. Up until then, you can fool yourself into thinking you were either justified or what you did wasn't really all that bad.

Confession is good for the soul and not just because you get it out. There IS shame in keeping secrets. Confession (or admission if you've been outed through exposure) shows your heart is humble and in the right place for recovery.

If the heart is not humble - I don't see real recovery as a possibility.

This, I think, is part of what Indie is indicating in that because the A was not exposed, your H has not been forced to come to terms with what he did and therefore, has not experienced a humble heart.

I doubt my H would have ever gotten there had he not had to face his kids who were telling him there was ZERO excuse for what he did.

Do you have to tell everyone? Who should you tell and who shouldn't you tell? That's an individual matter, depending on circumstances. However - without anyone knowing that H has to "look in the eye" I don't see him becoming a husband who knows the importance of having a marriage that is better than ever.

Well I may have to Unwritten, because I can't advise you on Plan Do What You Want To Do, as opposed to MB. I don�t know anything about that wildcard and following that particular plan would simply see this thread turn into a blog where you say 'Um no, don�t want to' and then talk about how you feel about stuff not working the way you want.

I don't think it's rebellious. I just don't see how you are going to end living under a shame cloud in secret - while you continue to live under a shame cloud in secret.

You aren't proud of recovery -- so you aren't pleased with or accepting your small goals happily. You want everything back to normal quickly - and part of that is because you dont want anyone else to know you're struggling as a couple. Because you're ashamed. Progress is not good enough.

The Hush Hush policy you both have towards your families is a TERRIBLE policy to live by and is one of the conditions that led to the affair. If you had both known that marital indiscretions would be exposed to your respective families, you would never have done them. You would never have courted admiration in your EAs, had you known your families would hear a specific retelling of it later on. Your H would never have lost the gem you prize so much if at the key moment he had been told he would one day have to confess all.

Then he would have to work hard to regain EVERYONE'S respect, not just yours. Seeing him face the music and accomplishing this would do so much in restoring your faith in him. Why he is being let off this hook is baffling to me.

It's not so many posts back that you tell of how you still feel temptation to get that hit of admiration elsewhere. Well, of course you do. It's fun and you and your H operate under a cloud of secrecy, and always will do, so you seem to be saying. It wouldn�t affect your whole world if you strayed a bit, so the temptation is strong.

And it is for your H too. Secretive. Tempting. And even if it isn�t - it's like home insurance. Seems like a steep cost for nothing but living open and transparent lives is really protecting you from losing everything.

Lying by omission is something we do to people we don't trust, or don�t know and who aren�t supportive of our lives. I don�t think this is descriptive of your families, is it? I would feel very hurt if my family lied like this to me. I know my H's family were overwhelmed to be included and told the truth. They had not expected that of me and they felt empowered to help as a result.

It's perfectly obvious to me that you are being eaten alive by resentment and secrecy and you are not 'walking away' at all. In order to walk away you have to actually DO something about it. You can't just sit down in the resentment, close your eyes and pretend it away.

Plus if his friends are oblivious, how do you know they are supportive of marriage recovery and not encouraging him to break EPs?

One other thought on exposure: don't you think, UW, that if you keep heading down this path, towards divorce, that when it happens it's not all going to come out? What then? Then it will be too late for it to be of use in recovery.

ETA: I just read on Lookin4thehandle's thread (latest post) that he wished he would have exposed a long time ago... you might want to check that out.

I do empathize with where you're at, UW. It's a hard place.

If your H is serious about REALLY committing to the online program, then let him prove it by initiating - doing the setting up - all of that. If he can do that and prove he is ready to take action, then he may be ready for recovery. To take it one step further, he can further prove it by taking it upon himself to confess his misdeeds.

ETA a thought on the tears, etc... Sometimes in this recovery process I have seen more action after a few tears from me too - and I'm not one who likes showing vulnerability, esp after the A! I don't know why that is. Maybe the tears bring out the protector in men??? I don't imagine men would react that way with a woman who cries over everything - but when they see a woman who isn't usually down/tearful being so, maybe it produces some empathy.

I am sorry you feel this way Indie. I am sorry you feel I am not walking away from resentment, or doing anything to overcome it and recover from this. I disagree.

Ok. good luck.

Indie, did you read that I wrote I would ask SH about it? (Or our coach if we decide to do the online program?)

Tell him you are burnt out and you need him to carry the weight for a while.

Your husband is your partner. He is half of the solution to the problems that he and you have created. Tell him you need his help. Tell him you believe that together you get solve any problem. Tell him you need him. He needs you too. Otherwise you both would have left.


No, you were not recognizing his efforts. But today seems like a good day to start. Acknowledge every small effort to him and you will feel a lot better about his efforts.


As my anti-versary approached I became upset about everything (Of course, I did not notice but my husband did). When we talked about it I realized that he had said he would make a decision on our anti-versary and I was worried that things had not progressed enough so I felt pressure to make things happen quick. You may have put yourself it this same situation with the end of the summer.


What did his statement 'please don't come at me.' mean? Was he pushing you away? Or was he gently telling you that you were being hurtful? I hope it was the second and that you accepted it.

You have him right were you want him. Do not push him away and do not let him push you away. He does need to be self aware, he does need to be in control of his life. He needs to not put you in control of him. If he says you are in control he can blame you for his situation. He needs to know he is control of his life and then he should better understand that he is responsible for his life (and yours while you are married).



You two have made progress. It is definitely NOT time to say it is over the he has had his chance. The tide is turning. Make a little bit of progress every day. When something bothers you tell him so that he take care of you. Keep walking away from the resentment do not hold on to it.

Believe that he loves you and wants to take care of you. Let him love you and take care of you. Love him and take care of him.



DO NOT set up another scenario for him to prove himself. It is a Love Buster. It is a DEMAND. Stop giving him pass/fail tests. It is not something you do to someone you love.

Prove that you are serious about REALLY committing to the online program by sitting down with him and doing the setting up together. If you can do that together and prove with your actions that you are ready to take action with him, then you may be ready for recovery. This is not his recovery it is the recovery of your marriage and if you are not in it together it is not going to work.

UW, you have already have all the answers you are seeking.


One of the best things my dearly departed father taught me is that Moderation in life is the Key.. Anything In Excess Is Bad.

Take a break.

Remember feelings follow actions, right?

You are not as bad off as you think. Look at last night, your H was GREAT. Give credit where credit is due.

Take a break.

Maybe I am WAY off here but it seems like you just need to take a breather from all of this, get in your UA time, loosen up and just have some fun. Are you living and breathing this forum? Don�t forget�Anything in excess is bad�

Remember fun? It is called fun because it IS fun.

Take a break and go find you some.

Hey, that was kind of catchy! lol

UW, Indie might be onto something here.

How long did you think about her post before you responded?

How long does it take you to respond to your H when he asks you a question or makes a comment?

Just curious.

The digestion process in the body is slow....how about in your mind?

Are you and your H friends anymore? What do you have in common?

I disagree with this, obviously. DOING the plan together is absolutely necessary, of course. However, Mr. UW has shown no initiative in how long? He has given lip service to recovery with doing only the smallest amount given to get by. It's time he showed he is vested in recovery.

If he had been giving his best efforts toward recovery I would agree on this but he has not so I do not.

You can only throw around terms like "Selfish Demands" when you are both giving best efforts to the plan.

Furthermore, regardless of who the WS is or BS, it is noted that Dr. H places more responsibility on the husband in recovery.

Why is UW supposed to suddenly believe - because of one night of deeper conversation - that H is NOW all in? He has to earn that belief - that trust that he will do what he says. He does that by ACTION and she needs to require it.

How about just trying to become friends again?

It is amazing how many 'problems' cleared up between my W and I once we actually became friends again...


You know.. Enjoying each others company.

I do need a break. You are totally right.

A small break? Or a permanent break from this M, that is the magic question.

Indie is right. I am just blogging away about all the things that aren't working for me. My frustration, my failures. Which is resolving nothing.

20 Years is right, I have the answer I am seeking.

Thank you to everyone who has posted over the last couple of days.

Who says you have to make ANY decisions right now?

Is there a gun to your head?

GO HAVE SOME FUN!!!

20YearHistory hits it right on again. His advise is kind, constructive, and concise. Your husband will likely agree with the advise he is giving and respond well if you follow it.

And to answer your question 20 Years, H and I have a lot in common. We share the same interests, same tastes, same hobbies. We have been friends doing our hobbies together for a long time. We spend hours talking about our hobbies, our gear, our plans. We want the same things in life, and they are rare things that few others want. We have a lot of shared dreams. We agree on almost everything, that is not related to marriage.

Which is the sad part. Because this could be a beautiful thing.

This is why Dr. H says it is important that spouses become each other's #1 recreational companions. The positive feelings that flood when you are enjoying life together make BIG love bank deposits.

I would only add this caution: this alone will not solve all problems as it's only 1 need among several of the top intimate needs. However, it is why I have said that there are times to focus on other needs than the one glaring you in the face (SF) pages ago. RC is definitely one of the top needs you have to meet for each other! That IS Marriage Builders.

Perhaps once those deposits are made, other actions will be easier to take.

No offense to your advice, because you are so uplifting and it is a breath of fresh air when I need it, but DDay wasn't yesterday, or last week. It was 2 years ago. So ya, there is kindof a gun to my head that says, life is short, get on with it.

RC is H's top need, and it has always been met.