I am in the process of writing the "No Contact Contract" to go in our lockbox along with our marriage certificate. It will state that if he contacts "She Who Must Not Be Named" in any shape or form from this point on, it is the same as filing for divorce. We talked at length about this yesterday and I got the "I get it, I do", but I want his signature on it and not just his word.

I also want something where he is promising something to me. The NC letter was to POSOW to let her know his intentions. Does it mention me as the beneficary? Yes. But - I want the promise to be to me for him to keep NC. I want him to write a NC letter, but from the point of view of him promising to ME to have NC with POSOW for life. And maybe we kinda-sorta did that in the workbook stuff, but I want something VERY SPECIFIC here. In writing. Maybe even signed in blood.

pAp,

One of the things I learned during our false recovery was that I could not change my H. I could not make him do anything - stop contact with OW, think negatively about OW or stop lying. Only he could do those things. In Nov 2009, I laid it out to my H, that if he was not all-in our marriage, he would be all-out. I wrote a plan B type letter with a list of conditions for him if he wanted to stay with me. Otherwise, I would never see or speak to him again. I let him chew on that for a little while. He decided he wanted the marriage.

A couple of months later, he was still dragging along. I said I did not want to be pushing/pulling him into recovery. He had to take the lead. He scheduled and we attended an MB weekend in Jan 2010. He has not lied to me about any topic since Feb 2010 (he really likes being transparent now. He says it is less stressful and more freeing). My H changed. He lost the fog. He hates what he did. He hates that he ever had feelings for OW and he is happy those feelings are gone. He no longer has any desire to contact her. He often takes the lead with the MB materials. We carefully schedule and track our UA time, with special emphasis on the four intimate emotional needs. Alot of damage was done with the break in NC and we are still recovering.

Yesterday, at my request, my H read this thread. He does not post here, but his comments to me were: your H was wrong and should say he was wrong and apologise. My H then said you should lay out some requirements as I did and be prepared to end the marriage if your H does not want to meet them.

Your H has not demonstrated care for you and his thinking/actions are very hurtful to you. He has been extremely selfish.

It is time for your H to step up and take the lead with recovery. He is the one who has to do it. You can't make him and you can't drag him into the marriage.


AM

Exactly.

All the NC letters and promises in the world aren't worth a damn if he doesn't intend to abide by them.

There's a difference between them being on board and really being on board.

Do what you like, but I'd almost tell him to leave until he can commit 100% without the slightest reservation or hesitation. Require him to PROVE to YOU why YOU should let HIM stay. If he asks what he's supposed to do, show him your list of EP's (and etc.) and tell him to figure out for himself how he's going to convince you that he's serious.

Let him do the work for once. Instead, he makes a 2-hr phone call to his girlfriend and appears to be under the assumption that nothing will ever come of it other than a few days of you being irritated.

AM - Thank you for your post. I mentioned to WH last night that I was jealous that so many of the WS's on the board were taking the lead in R. That they were the ones reading SAA while their spouse was snuggled in with them. I commented that I wanted him to read SAA himself again and not be led by me reading to him or handing him a couple of pages to read.

For 2 years I was the one reading, internalizing, putting it in front of him, discussing. And we have come such a long way in so many areas... but he never really internalized the section about NC. He thinks his situation is "special". We know that is crap.

I've just added a signature space to my contract for WH to sign. Including a space for 2 witnesses. Our kids.

I have an opportunity to go away this weekend for a funeral. I had originally said I wouldn't go unless WH was going with me, but I am wondering if leaving him alone this weekend, with a letter from me and SAA, and letting him chew on it all would be worthwhile.

It does feel VERY odd to take a weekend we had planned for major UA and turn it to Plan B-ish. But maybe I have been working too hard at this. It is in his court. I do want/need him to take the lead.

pAp, now would be about the WORST time to be apart. You need to be TOGETHER NOW.

Thanks ML - Have you been talking to my WH? He just said the same thing on the phone. He wants to be with me all weekend NO MATTER WHAT we do. And his comment was that even if I wanted to go alone, he absolutely wouldn't let me.

Since we'll be in the car a lot, if we go, I need to load the MP3 player... Anyone have some "greatest hits" from the MB radio archives that you'd suggest???

I say this sincerely, but I think all of his shows are so good that you can't really go wrong. I find him so interesting because he takes such a logical approach to such an emotional arena.

I love this. Brilliant addition.

I'm going to ditto that. Grab a random sampling of Marriage Builders radio shows, and you'll have a great cross section of marital issues, and many of them will contain relevant information for you (even if you assume at first that they might not).

When my H and I went away for the weekend recently, I took CDs from the MB at home program. Just another idea if you have a hard time loading the radio programs.

Thank you all so much for your guidance and support. I didn't even make an account on MB until after I had been a lurker for months, but partially because I kept coming here and finding questions that I felt could have been written by me, and situations that resonated with exactly where I was - and it was such a gift to read all these stories as I worked through my own issues. So - this a Thank You from all those lurkers who are out there... You have all (and some that are long gone! Is Mark, the memories guru still around?) have played such an important role in my life for the last 2 years...

GloveOil - You just sent out the link to page 4 of the "Eternal Triangle" link that I had posted as being something I was reading. A lot. Your response in that thread actually was printed off and set at the desk for my WH to read for kick off of our UA time last night - about 2 hours before you posted!

We have spent the last 6 hours in UA - including some RC time at a yummy new Thai Restaurant and we're talking and talking and... He has said a few things last night and this morning that make me feel like he finally gets it. He still has a lot of work to do (and admits that - which is key!), but we've had some serious O&H discussions about this last painful encounter and the nuclear fallout since then. About how he gets he needs to re-associate memories - and also that we wouldn't still be married, let alone this much in love if it wasn't for me finding this website in November 2009. I went immediately in Plan A and ordering and devouring SAA. It's taken a long time, and there have been a ton of tears, but it's all so worth it.

Just dropping by the computer to plunk down my year subscription to the radio archives so I can load the MP3 player for the weekend. I won't be around until Monday, but I'll check in then.

My only worry right now is - can I believe him... Only time will tell. And it is he who must prove himself worthy.

Pap: This is great! Keep us posted, OK?

Just a quick update, as promised...

It was a very, very good weekend for our marriage. We downloaded a bunch of the radio shows and listened to them in the car. It took us an hour to get through the first 10 minute segment because something would make us stop and talk about what was just said. This was the first time we've listened to these together and it is a VERY good thing to do if any of you don't already use these to jump start discussions.

Some things that I've learned from this, for anyone who may find this thread after a WS has broken contact after an extended time in recovery,OR for a WS that is even considering just a little "how are you doing?" email or phone call to the OP...

First - I notice that it is taking me awhile to really "feel" the love again for my WS. He is trying very hard and I think REALLY gets what he did wrong and knows that it absolutely can never happen again, but I cannot stress enough just how much this took out of the LB$. I had felt almost fully recovered and was so deeply in love with him before he made that phone call... It is going to take a long time to recover that. I think if we hadn't recovered as much as we had already, this may have wiped it out completely. I'd be in Plan B.

Second - For those who have been dealing with EA's - especially with all this reconnecting on FB, Classmates, etc - it is much more of a problem than it may seem on the surface. I think EXTRA diligence needs to be made for everyone to realize just how dangerous connecting with "old friends" can be. Even if you didn't have a romantic relationship with someone in your past, I think there is the "I remember you when" path that can lead to many places that a happily married person would want to stay clear of.

Third - Come here if you need help. It can be tough love, but if you are distraught there are some awesome people on here that can help you through it. I wish I had the time to devote to "being here" for others more often. During the times things are going well I log in once in awhile, but not much. When something is bothering me I spend hours, even days, pouring through and developing a plan for my own life/relationship. We are so blessed to have this community to come to.

I think you got your answer last week.

I'm so sorry I couldn't do more on my side to stop this.

Hi NoGoodDeed, welcome to Marriage Builders. Are you the OW's husband? What has happened? Has the affair resumed?

Would you mind starting a thread and telling us what happened? I am sorry for your dilemma.

Thanks, Melody. I'll get around to starting my own thread(s) shortly, just can't face it right now.

For planAprincess, I am the OW's betrayed husband. WE thought we had the situation under control until last year's NC Break, and then it was fine (for pAp) until my WW contacted her WH again this summer. A flurry of texts, emails, and calls, all in violation of the NC and undetected by both pAp and I, and now we have a full blown PA between her husband and my wife.

Sorry to hear it. Have you folks ever done a nuclear exposure? That is probably your best hope if anything can break it up.

It may be too late, though.

pAp is in the process of doing one on her side, I have begun one on mine. I've also asked for legal representation (it's a family business, I just happen to be the non-lawyer black sheep.)

A brief summary has just been posted to Surviving an Affair. Haven't been able to post my 'back story' yet, as this seems to be a more pressing matter. Otherwise, I woulnd't be up at 2AM after a week without any real sleep.