Well some people like to read.
Others like to listen.
So if she is not reading then I would do a marriage coaching , schedule it today, and a vacation ASAP

EDIT: Just sent in coaching request for either tomorrow or next Monday or Tuesday.

Will plan the vacation tonight w/ her. Seems like POJA applies to that situation...

Coaching session Monday morning. Hope the principle of POJA doesn't apply to that: "I don't want to though, but if you're telling me it's a requirement, I will have to agree to it."

We did POJA the date and time of the appointment.

Great job, Q!

Thanks for the encouragement!! To anyone reading this: DO WHAT EVERYONE HERE IS TELLING YOU... not moving out of our shared home, exposing to anyone and everyone, all at once, enumerating my demands for making the marriage work (including MB!!!) were critical!

9/4: I discovered MB forums, made my first post
9/5: E-mail sent w/ 6 demands for ME to stay in this marriage
9/6: Ordered MB books, watched all the videos & lots of radio clips on MB website
9/9: Started Plan A, total exposure, affair cut off, W moves home
9/10: W sends no contact letter & email to OM. UA zooms up to several hours a day.
9/11: Got impatient w/ mail and bought MB books at bookstore
9/12: W agrees to all 6 demands including MB & MB coaching

I am also feeling genuine love and affection to a degree I haven't felt for a while... the "love dare" I did for the last 17 weeks worked to help me feelings, but lots of UA time + no LBs from me + hunting for how to meet W's ENs has made me feel like I'm falling in love all over again.

X2

Today: sent a few positive-minded texts throughout the day and an e-card telling W I had a surprise. Called her when I left the office to let her know when I'd be home. Arrived about 5 minutes earlier than that. Picked up a small gift (T-shirt) & card at the gift shop at work (I work at corporate HQ for a major retailer).

Read out loud the section in HNHN on affection do's and don'ts. W elaborated at length habits she wants me to create, things that are OK/tolerable, and things to avoid. To my surprise, some touching is OK! Sometimes hugging/holding/hand-holding is OK, just please ask first. She also listed all the different kinds of gifts she likes.

Vacation: She isn't sure she can do a week and doesn't want to miss much work, so she wants to do a 4-day length trip. I plan to continue to negotiate this but not do anything without POJA. I am shooting for a one-week trip (I started the convo wanting 2 weeks). I suggested Italy, but she wants to make her first trip to Italy with her dad (his grandmother was born there). More POJA needed here.

PA EN: Said I have my needs met in this area. We then discuss her tattoo which she wants to get finished which has always been a sore point with me. I didn't like them when we met. We spent almost an hour with her explaining what it means and her drawing out how she'd like to get it finished. I said this would be a great thing for us to discuss further and I'd like to be there with her when it gets finished. After this, she REALLY opened up.

Domestic support: hates dust, loves dishwashing, loves furniture looking nice. We then spent about a half hour fluffing up our sofa cushions, pulling feathers off them, beating them outside, and vacuuming them. I wanted to cook a meal and she suggested a recipe and then showed me in detail how to do everything just so. Then she grabbed the circulars from the mail and spent about a half hour showing me her coupon-clipping and grocery-store-analysing system. I'm clueless on how to save money shopping for groceries, and I feel like I learned quite a bit from her.

Financial support: outside of the obvious "please pay my debts off", W said please pay bills PROMPTLY (when the bill comes, not on the due date), and would prefer to pay bills together rather than work over e-mail (unlike the past 2 months). She also got the energy today to start applying for jobs, and realised that since she isn't out all night anymore, she can work a job that requires being up early, or requires being available to work some evenings.

Conversation: Both of us are OK with our needs in this department. I talked about how I used to talk lots to opposite sex friends in the past, and that I am not doing this anymore, and let her know 3 people I've cut off contact with. She seemed somewhat pleased & surprised at this.

Rec. Comp.: Would like to watch a new TV show she likes with me plus some independent movies. We also agreed that we both love singing in the car. I spontaneously did it yesterday for the first half of a drive somewhere, and she did it for the drive back. She'd also like to share the recorded songs she's really "feeling" with me. Has a documentary she wanted to watch tonight, but before we knew it was midnight.

Weekend plans: I suggested museum of art in a city an hour north; she said she wants to do one in a city two hours southwest and she seemed pretty happy about going. Two hours of UA in the car instead of one? Yes ma'am! So that's where we're doing Saturday.

Sunday she had a plan to spend the whole day w/ extended family. I said that was fine, but we need to spend the day together. She said I would not be welcome around them. So we agreed she wouldn't go. We discussed churches to go to but haven't agreed on one.

Annoying behaviours: Really doesn't like having her body stared at during conversation.

Her birthday in a few weeks: Would like me to put on a small celebration w/ her immediate family (sister + husband + kids, parents), at our apartment.

There's plenty more, but it sure is nice to see her this way. I feel like this marriage can be saved. Meeting your spouse's ENs is FUN!

FYI. The POJA does apply to affair recovery in the following manner. The wayward spouse must agree to a full MB recovery plan to stay married. If there is not enthusiastic agreement there is divorce or separation.

The exceptions to the POJA are health and safety, or affairs. In the case of affairs the betrayed spouse must make demands to end the affair and meet recovery guidelines.

You and WW seem to be flying back together. Keep up the "Plan A" activities. Ex: Send her a note today telling her how much you enjoyed the frank and open discussions of last night.

As for this:

Annoying behaviours: Really doesn't like having her body stared at during conversation.

That annoys me as well!

Sounds great Q, keep up the good work.

Q,


Having a program for recovery (namely MB) as a requirement for reconciliation is not subject to POJA - requirements set forth by the BS to the WS for reconciliation after an affair are non-negotiable, nor should they be.

Already done. Plan A is in full force!


Okay. This is what I have been trying to figure out.

1 long week (two weekends) vacation being planned for 10/4 - 10/16 type of time frame. May be forced to move it up sooner depending on W's job situation.

Spending Saturday in a city two hours away.

One big problem for us: our apartment is immediately next door to a coffee house/bar where she used to do musical performances, often with OM. They have open mic nights every Thursday (including last night). W was in a FOUL mood last night, although it was not directed towards me in the slightest.

I did not see OM's car anywhere and he didn't perform, and I doubt he'll be around (the owners of this establishment are friends and probably don't want their high-class coffee house/wine tasting establishment to have a reputation as a house of adultery), but I feel the memories for are painful. I am personally OK with living next door to it.

Do we need to move, and how soon?

Yes I would plan to move.

Dr. Harley will recommend moving especially if there's a chance of APs to run into each other. Isn't your lease about up?

Our lease is in a month-to-month kind of situation and it's only $350/mo.

Moving out of apartment + picking new place to go to will be difficult to come to joint agreement on. Would it be wise to not broach the topic until after our first coaching session next week?

The most sensible option to me would seem to be to relocate to a city an hour north where I work. Shorten my commute, also easier for W to find jobs up there.

Yea. You need to move away and never visit the place again.
My wife also washed an affair with a musician. His music is terrible. He sings about drugs and booze and sounds awful but it seems to be prevalent with these bar musicians

Making plans to move away. POJAing it will be an adventure! Cleveland has many wonderful neighbourhoods to choose from, although it seems I'll have to avoid places with the whole live-music scene (which we both love) for good. It just seems like it'd be very triggering for her.

These musicians sure are a piece of work. OM is 30, and lives with mommy and step-dad (I think, he doesn't share his mother's last name). His step-dad got rich in some Internet scheme back in the day. OM works as an intern off-and-on.

I make myself feel better by comparing my vocal talent to his. (I'm better.)

I wouldn't necessarily avoid the live music scene. It's something important to both of you and a great opportunity to share recreational companionship.

Just make sure you always enjoy the scene together. No more nights of her going out listening or performing without you.

Thanks--I'll keep that in mind. Currently there's a "wall" up that WW is choosing to not do these things at all, rather than do them with me.

How long does the withdrawal phase last? SAA advises implementing Plan A for 3 - 6 months for BHs.

Our first session with Steve went well (I advise anyone else in my situation to come up with some way to do it. Well worth the $)

Things seem to gradually be getting better and there's a lot more conversation between us, especially of the laughter variety or the inner, deep secrets variety. Things are back to "normal" with me being around my WW's parents/sister/nephews etc.

WW still keeps steadfastly talking about how she'll have her own independent life when divorce is final. I have heard a few cracks in the armour, like when WW asked how exactly a dating relationship with us would work post-divorce, and we discussed the prospect of living together unmarried. (I said I would do no such thing and she agreed.)

Probably will not be moving in the next few months, and it looks like vacations will be limited to 2 or 3 day weekend getaways at the very most for now.

Hope this is all normal. It's been 10 days since exposure.

Thanks to everyone here for helping me believe a bereaved spouse can actually do this, and for helping me believe a wayward spouse is capable of falling in love again.

I think it would be a trigger.
My ww had an affair with a guitar player and she was hooked on his heavy metal music from then on. Her personality actually changed.
I would be careful for a while.