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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Sigh, bored right now. Kiss is home and we could get in some good ua time but he is too busy playing with his toys. Too bad the boards are quiet since I have time on my hands.

Guess I'll go read lovebusters...again.
He's home and you aren't spending any time together?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Kiss and I are going to Niagara Falls this weekend. He had taken time off from work to go. Only thing is that he didn't take into account that we have no one to watch the kids. DS21 works and can't watch them. My DD17 just started 2 jobs and works friday night and saturday night. And she has a 5k on sunday. My DD17 said she would be able to handle the kids after that but that means we won't be able to leave until after the 5k. Doesn't give us much time away together but I don't see what else I can do.

I think 3 days is better than what we usually get, which isn't much.


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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Kiss and I are going to Niagara Falls this weekend. He had taken time off from work to go. Only thing is that he didn't take into account that we have no one to watch the kids. DS21 works and can't watch them. My DD17 just started 2 jobs and works friday night and saturday night. And she has a 5k on sunday. My DD17 said she would be able to handle the kids after that but that means we won't be able to leave until after the 5k. Doesn't give us much time away together but I don't see what else I can do.

I think 3 days is better than what we usually get, which isn't much.

You need to get babysitters. This shouldnt be a difficult task.

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Originally Posted by HDW
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Kiss and I are going to Niagara Falls this weekend. He had taken time off from work to go. Only thing is that he didn't take into account that we have no one to watch the kids. DS21 works and can't watch them. My DD17 just started 2 jobs and works friday night and saturday night. And she has a 5k on sunday. My DD17 said she would be able to handle the kids after that but that means we won't be able to leave until after the 5k. Doesn't give us much time away together but I don't see what else I can do.

I think 3 days is better than what we usually get, which isn't much.

You need to get babysitters. This shouldnt be a difficult task.

My DS21 is off on Sunday so he will go to the 5k with them This way we can leave first thing sunday morning. Prior to kiss's a, my parents would have taken them. Now....they won't.

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But we need to focus on today's weather. Not yesterday's.
My wife left and I have 3 kids and it took a while but I'm set up with babysitters now.
You can do it.

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RQ do you or Kiss have siblings or close friends that can take your younger kids for a few days?

I would not feel comfortable getting a babysitter that was not well known and trusted for overnights/weekends, but if you have a sibling or good friend close that would be a good option.

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My only comment here is that Kiss needs to be working on this too.

When H has planned dates, weekends, etc. for us (rare) he somehow manages to 'forget' we have kids, two dogs, a cat and a guinea pig. It is very frustrating and almost negates the entire attempt at planning something romantic, when I have to scramble to find a sitter, dog sitter, cat sitter, guinea pig sitter (what he needs a fresh lettuce salad every night...), wash the clothes, pack the bags, commute everyone around...and then H just comes home and away we go. Shew! Him being romantic to me can add a lot of work, for me! So Kiss should be scrambling to figure this out with you and/or FOR you, IMO.

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UW, there is only my family nearby. My parents used to take the kids overnight but won't now. MY SIL is nearby and will take them during the day but can't at night. All of his family live in Florida.

This morning, kiss tells me that he made a rather large purchase ($150) yesterday on some pins that he collects. No POJA at all. Now just three days ago we made a budget and he completely screwed it already. Any advice??

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Yes.
The budget should be agreed upon using the POJA.
Dr Harley addressed a call about a budget on yesterday's radio show.
He recommended a grocery store exercise as practice.

The thing with budgets is that they have to be followed.
I encourage you to sit down and talk to him about it.
I am familiar with business operations. As a manager Kiss is too. The budget should be a standard operating procedure. (SOP). His employer has an SOP. The household needs one too, agreed upon by the POJA.

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Originally Posted by HDW
Yes.
The budget should be agreed upon using the POJA.
Dr Harley addressed a call about a budget on yesterday's radio show.
He recommended a grocery store exercise as practice.

The thing with budgets is that they have to be followed.
I encourage you to sit down and talk to him about it.
I am familiar with business operations. As a manager Kiss is too. The budget should be a standard operating procedure. (SOP). His employer has an SOP. The household needs one too, agreed upon by the POJA.

Finances has been a long standing issue with us. I'd be the one making budgets and writing down every dime I spent and he would treat the debit card like it was a never ending pocket. We have been through bankruptcy and our home is being foreclosed. So this has caused a A LOT of stress.I wrote down the budget the other night while he was at work and gave it to him to look over. I asked him if there was anything he wanted to change and he answered no. He laughed at my budget that I put myself on ($100 for 2 weeks) because he says that I would go over it. Then he goes and spend more than that in 1 sitting. It's very frustrating.

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HDW, did you miss where she says that they agreed a budget three days ago?

rq, the pins need to go back. If it's possible to return them to the shop then this should be done. You need to get back to where you were when you made the agreement using POJA.


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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Originally Posted by HDW
Yes.
The budget should be agreed upon using the POJA.
Dr Harley addressed a call about a budget on yesterday's radio show.
He recommended a grocery store exercise as practice.

The thing with budgets is that they have to be followed.
I encourage you to sit down and talk to him about it.
I am familiar with business operations. As a manager Kiss is too. The budget should be a standard operating procedure. (SOP). His employer has an SOP. The household needs one too, agreed upon by the POJA.

Finances has been a long standing issue with us. I'd be the one making budgets and writing down every dime I spent and he would treat the debit card like it was a never ending pocket. We have been through bankruptcy and our home is being foreclosed. So this has caused a A LOT of stress.I wrote down the budget the other night while he was at work and gave it to him to look over. I asked him if there was anything he wanted to change and he answered no. He laughed at my budget that I put myself on ($100 for 2 weeks) because he says that I would go over it. Then he goes and spend more than that in 1 sitting. It's very frustrating.
This is an issue of IB, which is a LB, and a particularly bad one when a problem has been acknowledged and a solution has been agreed, using POJA - and then unilaterally overridden.

If POJA has been broken by IB, then the IB needs to be reversed, and, the onus is on your H to reverse it, or to find a solution that will satisfy you if it cannot be reversed.

I'll have a look on the private forum to see if I can find Dr H's own advice on a similar situation. I'm sure I've read things like this there. For some couples it is a particularly bad problem that the IB spouse never seems to really appreciate, and Dr H is very firm about not putting up with this. It can break a marriage.


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Originally Posted by sugarcane
rq, the pins need to go back. If it's possible to return them to the shop then this should be done. You need to get back to where you were when you made the agreement using POJA.

he would never do this willingly.

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Originally Posted by HDW
I'll have a look on the private forum to see if I can find Dr H's own advice on a similar situation. I'm sure I've read things like this there. For some couples it is a particularly bad problem that the IB spouse never seems to really appreciate, and Dr H is very firm about not putting up with this. It can break a marriage.

I appreciate it

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rq, I found this. There might be more and I will keep looking, but this seems very close. The situation is over the H's IB purchase of a motorbike. He wanted a bike for a long time as his choice of recreational activity, and his wife did not enjoy riding bikes or want her H to spend money on the purchase of one. She felt that his pursuing this hobby on his own, as he would have had to do since she didn't like riding, would reduce the UA time they spent doing things they both enjoyed, to the detriment of their marriage.

However, when a good deal came up on a bike, the H bought it without asking his wife and she was terribly upset. It was a direct violation of POJA.

Here is some of what Dr H wrote to the husband:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
The first step to recover from any violation of the Policy of Joint Agreement is to reverse the decision. Sell the bike. Once the bike is sold, try to find alternative recreational activities that you would both enjoy just as much. That's the solution.

Isn't it interesting how insidious a violation of the Policy of Joint Agreement can be. It's a trap that slowly ensnares you and wrings out all of the love you have for each other. Here you were, doing much better in your marriage because you were learning how to make decisions that were mutually caring. Then, out of nowhere comes this ugly monster from the deep lagoon. What could you have been thinking?

Not only do I recommend selling the bike, but I also recommend that the subject never be mentioned again. So much resentment has been created on both sides that it's become an issue that probably can't be addressed. But it doesn't have to ruin your marriage because you really don't need that bike. You need a recreational activity that you both enjoy, and the bike will prevent you from finding that intersection to the universe of your individual interests.
....

Resentment is inevitable when being forced to give up something you desire -- like a lover from an affair. But giving up something that benefits one of you at the expense to the other is always the first step toward finding a permanent solution, just like giving up the lover is the first step toward creating a romantic relationship in marriage.

...the bike is not your primary source of joy in your life. Your wife is. But you have squeezed all the joy out of her by settling for something that's not nearly as valuable to your happiness. It's a foolish decision, but one that can be reversed. Sell the bike, and then get to work finding a replacement for it with the one who can really make you happy if you take her feelings into account when you make decisions.
In your case it would not be finding a replacement for the items that he bought, but not replacing them at all, if "no spending" was your original POJA.

The reason I want to find more is that I know Dr H has more to say about what it really means when a spouse breaks POJA. I've read him say that it means that the decision was never enthusiastic in the first place, so you must not get angry but go back to the drawing board and come up with a new POJA. However, I think I've also read him say that a spouse who has been uncaring throughout the marriage, or for a long time, is simply being "uncaring" yet again when breaking POJA, and this is a sign that the marriage is unlikely to succeed. A spouse who has had an affair (uncaring) and who then continues uncaring behaviour with instances of broken POJA is really saying "I don't care about you. I'll passively-aggressively get my way by appearing to agree with you then do whatever the heck I like."

I'm sorry to say that, having followed your thread, your marriage sounds like this latter kind of situation. I'm sorry; that must be hard to read.

I'll look for more tomorrow. It's late here.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
The reason I want to find more is that I know Dr H has more to say about what it really means when a spouse breaks POJA. I've read him say that it means that the decision was never enthusiastic in the first place, so you must not get angry but go back to the drawing board and come up with a new POJA. However, I think I've also read him say that a spouse who has been uncaring throughout the marriage, or for a long time, is simply being "uncaring" yet again when breaking POJA, and this is a sign that the marriage is unlikely to succeed. A spouse who has had an affair (uncaring) and who then continues uncaring behaviour with instances of broken POJA is really saying "I don't care about you. I'll passively-aggressively get my way by appearing to agree with you then do whatever the heck I like."

I can think of a person who wrote Dr Harley about her H's lack of POJA and he wrote her back. I bookmarked it and used to link it but forgot about it until I saw this... I will come back with it...


Ddays 2007 and 2011
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SusieQ #2669487 09/27/12 07:57 PM
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Poster "mopey" wrote to Dr Harley about her F?WH's lack of using POJA when deciding which AA class to attend (she didn't want him to go to coed classes). This was Dr Harley's response.

Originally Posted by mopey
Dr. Harley's response.........

Hi Kathi,

I don't believe that the POJA is an option for marriage. I believe that it's essential for marriage. Those who do not follow that guideline face a lifetime of misery. That's because if spouses don't make their decisions with each other's feelings in mind, they end up trampling over each other's feelings, the way your husband has trampled over your feelings. If your husband feels that the POJA is something that can be violated occasionally, he'll have another affair, or do something else to ruin your life. His affair may or may not be with someone in his co-ed AA meeting, but will almost be a certainty. If your husband, or anyone else, for that matter, doesn't take extraordinary precautions to avoid an affair, they'll end up having one because they're so common and so tempting. From my perspective, it's that simple. By the way, I've known for years that co-ed AA meetings are notorious breeding gounds for affairs. In fact, they are often the primary cause of the divorce of couples who have just been through treatment.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Here:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2418611

Last edited by SusieQ; 09/27/12 07:59 PM.

Ddays 2007 and 2011
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SusieQ #2669492 09/27/12 08:09 PM
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Thank you so much, sugarcane and Susie. I'll have a talk with kiss about this. He got them off of eBay so they can go back on it, I'm thinking.

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RQ hope you and Kiss are having a fun time at Niagra Falls.

Give us an update when you get back.

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Originally Posted by sugarcane
rq, the pins need to go back. If it's possible to return them to the shop then this should be done. You need to get back to where you were when you made the agreement using POJA.

he would never do this willingly.

Well then you may as well throw the budget away if it isn't being followed.

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