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Hi everyone, I�d like some opinions on a new dating situation I�m in.

For those who don�t know my story, I�ve been divorced close to 3 years, got into a serious relationship too soon after separating, ended that relationship about 2 months ago in July, and have been enjoying being single since then, not looking to date at all. I�ve never been the type to look for dates. If I meet someone by accident and like them, I�ll pursue the relationship; but if not, I�m ok on my own.

(More of my background is on this thread if you�re interested.)

About a month ago, a married male friend I hadn�t heard from in many years sent me an email mentioning a woman friend of his in my area who was looking for dating opportunites, and he thought we might make a good match. Since I had been enjoying the refreshing feeling of being single again, I debated following up, but his description of her intrigued me -- smart, cute, athletic �- so I asked him about her. After an email introduction and then a couple phone calls, we decided to meet in the afternoon at a nearby park and walk our dogs. My friend was correct; she is indeed smart (advanced degree in organic chemistry), cute as a button, athletic (runs � marathons at about my running pace), loves the outdoors (so do I), and has a charming personality. After the walk, we spur-of-the-moment decided to grab a quick bite to eat for dinner and ended up spending 4 hours in conversation at a casual restaurant.

That was two weekends ago. Last weekend, we met around noon, rode mountain bikes through a park to a Whole Foods store, ate lunch, and rode back. It was another fun experience in which 6 hours passed by quickly, and we both agreed that we feel very comfortable with each other, easily able to be ourselves.

Last night, we met after work for a beer tasting event at a local wine & beer shop, and again, time slipped by quickly as we talked and talked and talked. We've had a few phone calls like that too where the conversation seems very easy, and I'm always left with happy feelings when we hang up.

My question involves when to express signs of affection such as hugging, kissing, holding hands, etc. I welcome all advice, but since I�m a male, I�m particularly interested in the female point of view.

When all three dates ended, as we were saying goodbye, she initiated a hug. The first two times, I was somewhat caught off guard. In thinking about it afterwards, I decided her hugs are either affectionate or else that�s just the way she says goodbye to everyone. Last night, however, felt different. My intuition said that she was waiting for me to initiate some kind of hug, but I was too slow, so she did it.

I like physical signs of affection such as hugs and kisses, but I don�t want to rush into anything. Does expressing signs of affection indicate that I�m interested in her and no one else? If I was currently dating other women casually, I don�t think I could express physical signs of affection. But since I�m not, does doing so imply dating exclusivity? If you�re a woman reading this, and a man hugs or kisses you after a couple of dates, do you interpret that as he�s not hugging and kissing other women?

I'll be seeing her again this weekend, and I'm thinking of asking her about hugs and kisses and what it means to her, but I'm not entirely comfortable doing so, which is why I'm posting this question here.

Does anyone know of any radio broadcasts where Dr. Harley discusses signs of affection when starting a dating relationship?

Thanks for your thoughts.

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Originally Posted by KeepLearning
If you�re a woman reading this, and a man hugs or kisses you after a couple of dates, do you interpret that as he�s not hugging and kissing other women?


Glad things are going well for you KL.

I would not interpret a public hug or kiss as even a wish for exclusivity but would not exchange a more intimate kiss with someone until I wanted to be exclusive even if it had not been discussed.

One of the advantages of being a little older is that a woman can initiate these things and clearly she is ok doing this. Why not just let her call the shots? You can just relax and enjoy yourself.


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Hi living_well, thanks for your input, that helps.

Originally Posted by living_well
One of the advantages of being a little older is that a woman can initiate these things and clearly she is ok doing this. Why not just let her call the shots? You can just relax and enjoy yourself.
Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but isn't the man supposed to take the lead here? If I don't at least call some of the shots, might she interpret that as I'm not attracted to her?

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Originally Posted by KeepLearning
I like physical signs of affection such as hugs and kisses, but I don�t want to rush into anything. Does expressing signs of affection indicate that I�m interested in her and no one else? If I was currently dating other women casually, I don�t think I could express physical signs of affection. But since I�m not, does doing so imply dating exclusivity? If you�re a woman reading this, and a man hugs or kisses you after a couple of dates, do you interpret that as he�s not hugging and kissing other women?

I would not take hugging or kissing as a sign of exclusivity. I wouldn't take anything as exclusivity unless it has been discussed and agreed upon by both of you...that way there are no assumptions or misunderstandings.

Quote
I'll be seeing her again this weekend, and I'm thinking of asking her about hugs and kisses and what it means to her, but I'm not entirely comfortable doing so, which is why I'm posting this question here.

This would not make *me* uncomfortable...other women...who knows. I prefer when a man is upfront (not in a blunt in your face sort of way) so there is no confusion.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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Originally Posted by KeepLearning
If I don't at least call some of the shots, might she interpret that as I'm not attracted to her?

I would. I would not like the feeling of this being a one-sided effort.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by KeepLearning
Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but isn't the man supposed to take the lead here? If I don't at least call some of the shots, might she interpret that as I'm not attracted to her?



Maybe I just have a massive ego but it has never crossed my mind that a man could spend large amounts of time with someone he is not attracted to :-)


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Thanks ladies! I appreciate your thoughts. Getting different points of view helps and shows me that I simply need to ask her what her point of view is.

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Originally Posted by KeepLearning
Hi everyone, I�d like some opinions on a new dating situation I�m in.

For those who don�t know my story, I�ve been divorced close to 3 years, got into a serious relationship too soon after separating, ended that relationship about 2 months ago in July, and have been enjoying being single since then, not looking to date at all. I�ve never been the type to look for dates. If I meet someone by accident and like them, I�ll pursue the relationship; but if not, I�m ok on my own.

(More of my background is on this thread if you�re interested.)

About a month ago, a married male friend I hadn�t heard from in many years sent me an email mentioning a woman friend of his in my area who was looking for dating opportunites, and he thought we might make a good match. Since I had been enjoying the refreshing feeling of being single again, I debated following up, but his description of her intrigued me -- smart, cute, athletic �- so I asked him about her. After an email introduction and then a couple phone calls, we decided to meet in the afternoon at a nearby park and walk our dogs. My friend was correct; she is indeed smart (advanced degree in organic chemistry), cute as a button, athletic (runs � marathons at about my running pace), loves the outdoors (so do I), and has a charming personality. After the walk, we spur-of-the-moment decided to grab a quick bite to eat for dinner and ended up spending 4 hours in conversation at a casual restaurant.

That was two weekends ago. Last weekend, we met around noon, rode mountain bikes through a park to a Whole Foods store, ate lunch, and rode back. It was another fun experience in which 6 hours passed by quickly, and we both agreed that we feel very comfortable with each other, easily able to be ourselves.

Last night, we met after work for a beer tasting event at a local wine & beer shop, and again, time slipped by quickly as we talked and talked and talked. We've had a few phone calls like that too where the conversation seems very easy, and I'm always left with happy feelings when we hang up.

My question involves when to express signs of affection such as hugging, kissing, holding hands, etc. I welcome all advice, but since I�m a male, I�m particularly interested in the female point of view.

When all three dates ended, as we were saying goodbye, she initiated a hug. The first two times, I was somewhat caught off guard. In thinking about it afterwards, I decided her hugs are either affectionate or else that�s just the way she says goodbye to everyone. Last night, however, felt different. My intuition said that she was waiting for me to initiate some kind of hug, but I was too slow, so she did it.

I like physical signs of affection such as hugs and kisses, but I don�t want to rush into anything. Does expressing signs of affection indicate that I�m interested in her and no one else? If I was currently dating other women casually, I don�t think I could express physical signs of affection. But since I�m not, does doing so imply dating exclusivity? If you�re a woman reading this, and a man hugs or kisses you after a couple of dates, do you interpret that as he�s not hugging and kissing other women?

I'll be seeing her again this weekend, and I'm thinking of asking her about hugs and kisses and what it means to her, but I'm not entirely comfortable doing so, which is why I'm posting this question here.

Does anyone know of any radio broadcasts where Dr. Harley discusses signs of affection when starting a dating relationship?

Thanks for your thoughts.

I think you should watch some John Wayne movies ; I'm glad she's a runner. That is a perfect recreational match for you.
I just caution you to remember that you tend to fall into relationships quickly. Watch for your old patterns.
But seriously watch these old movies.

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Originally Posted by KeepLearning
I decided her hugs are either affectionate or else that�s just the way she says goodbye to everyone.

I'd go with the latter. I've met many women who view hugs no differently than men do shaking hands. It does not mean that she does not send or receive affection through hugs too, it's just that there are "friends hugs" and "romance hugs".

Quote
I like physical signs of affection such as hugs and kisses, but I don�t want to rush into anything. Does expressing signs of affection indicate that I�m interested in her and no one else?

I would not consider a casual hug to be a sign of affection. Now, if the hug is of the "20 second hug" variety, then that's different... Just like some women like to do the quick "peck" type of kiss without meaning anything romantic by it - can't confuse that with a French kiss wink. Regardless, I don't think that casual hugs or kisses, or even the more romantic ones, are signs of exclusivity.

Quote
If you�re a woman reading this, and a man hugs or kisses you after a couple of dates, do you interpret that as he�s not hugging and kissing other women?

I'm not a woman, but I would go with a most definite NO!

Quote
I'll be seeing her again this weekend, and I'm thinking of asking her about hugs and kisses and what it means to her,

Hmmm, I'm going to against the sentiment here, and say "don't". I think it's weird to discuss what hugs and kisses mean to someone - just do it, and you'll figure it out. Like HDW said, John Wayne didn't go around asking the dames what kisses meant to them - he just did it smile.

I guess what I am saying is don't overanalyze - enjoy your time with her, and give her a nice warm hug at the end of the date, lest she think that you are gay wink. The rest will fall into place, trust me.

AGG


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Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
I guess what I am saying is don't overanalyze - enjoy your time with her, and give her a nice warm hug at the end of the date, lest she think that you are gay wink. The rest will fall into place, trust me.

AGG


Definitely agree with this.


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Thanks everyone for your thoughts. HDW, good idea about the John Wayne movies; turns out she likes to watch old movies! smile

Everyone's input will influence me, I'm certain. I like what AGG and LivingWell agree on - don't overanalyze. I was falling into that trap for fear of making a mistake.

Rather than choose one piece of advice over another, I decided to simply try to be myself, and let whatever happens, happen. And that decision came as a result of everyone's input, so thank you!

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Originally Posted by KeepLearning
Rather than choose one piece of advice over another, I decided to simply try to be myself, and let whatever happens, happen. And that decision came as a result of everyone's input, so thank you!

Funny, I had two thoughts. One from my teenage years when we asked a friend's older brother about this type of thing: "do whatever comes natural" was his reponse.
I also recently was told by a sagacious elderly lady (during my short lived dating days before I met NG): "kissing usually leads to more." So, I would say to be ready for that part too, or be prepared for how to put on the brakes as there is no shame in that.

I could give you some practical advice, too, but I dont' think you really need it, KL. You'll do just fine.

opt


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Originally Posted by KeepLearning
I like what AGG and LivingWell agree on - don't overanalyze. I was falling into that trap for fear of making a mistake.

Rather than choose one piece of advice over another, I decided to simply try to be myself, and let whatever happens, happen. And that decision came as a result of everyone's input, so thank you!

You got this! weightlifter


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Now In fairness I should disclose that John Wayne was divorced and married a few time s

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I wouldn't consider hugs to mean exclusivity at all either.

People more easily give away the needs most important to them. If affection is a high need for her, it'll be as natural as breathing for her to express that. She won't need her emotions primed first. Take IC and SF. Some people couldn't indulge in either without a close pair bond. Others can easily enjoy the need without any bonding at all.


But surely if you felt there was confusion on this front, you'd simply be O&H about exclusivity? Rather than about what hugs mean?

A friend of mine was asked to explain herself after an internet date as he saw her dating profile was still up. She said: "I'd like to see you again - but I am still going to be dating people". So he called it quits. She'd met him once for three hours!

I think these cards should be on the table if there's confusion.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Just wanted to thank everyone for helping me out here.

I�m finding what is working well is a combination of:
  • The advice from AGoodGuy to not overanalyze and let things fall into place on their own.
  • The advice from Black Raven and Indiegirl to discuss things so there are no misunderstandings.
The woman I met a few weeks ago and I saw each other over the weekend and discussed our feelings for each other. She and I both like the way we can discuss things openly and not have to guess at what the other person is thinking. She said she�s not dating anyone else and doesn�t want to. I told her I felt the same, and we decided that we want to explore this relationship in an exclusive manner.

Many people on these forums recommend Dr. Harley�s �date 30 people� principle, but I know myself, and when I�m attracted to a woman, I lose the desire to date anyone else. That�s the way I�m wired, and I don�t want to fight it.

There are times when I�m alone, thinking about this developing relationship, trying to figure out how to address various issues with her; and then I remember AGoodGuy's advice to not overanalyze and let things happen on their own. That helps take the pressure off.

When relationship topics DO come up in conversation on their own, I like that she and I can discuss things openly, and I think of Black Raven�s and Indiegirl�s advice to be up front about my feelings to make sure there's no confusion.

Those two pieces of advice are working nicely together. Thank you!


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Originally Posted by KeepLearning
The advice from AGoodGuy to not overanalyze and let things fall into place on their own.

Glad to be of service smile. But just to clarify, my "don't overanalyze" comment was intended to primarily apply to your question about affection, as in "what does it mean when she gives me a hug or a kiss?". I think that these things do fall into place rather quickly smile.

I would still be analyzing the "data" in other areas as the relationship progressed. That's the point of dating, IMO... Well, at least part of it smile.

AGG


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Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
[I would still be analyzing the "data" in other areas as the relationship progressed. That's the point of dating, IMO... Well, at least part of it smile.
I appreciate that point of view, and I think its validity depends on how anxious one is to find a long-term partner.

I DO tend to over-analyze, and I think for now, I just want to enjoy the companionship of a woman who likes doing similar things, and try to have fun. My internal radar will be processing data, no doubt, but I want to leave the analysis of that data for later.

It's refreshing to just have fun! ...and not over-think things.

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Glad to read things went well, KL. Don't stress yourself out over thinking things...easier said than done lol...BTDT. Remind yourself...there's no rush. I can't remember the ages of your children (or if she has any) but I would refrain from bringing them into the picture anytime soon. Good luck and have fun!!! smile



BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Hi Black Raven, why do you recommend not introducing her to my children anytime soon? The reason I ask is she's already met my son, and probably would've met my daughter by now if she lived closer. My kids are 22 (daughter lives on the other coast) and 20 (son attends college and lives with me). She met my son a couple weekends ago when we helped her move from one apartment to another, and she really enjoyed meeting him, thinks he's wonderful. She has no children and has not been married.

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