Thanks HDW. I do keep punching, but am taking some body blows at the same time. It sucks, but it is what it is. A couple of things keep me motivated, for what it's worth:

1. My 2 kids: I want the best for them and that is 2 loving biological parents that are in love with each other. If that is not possible though, then I want to be able to tell them some day that I fought for their mom, I fought for our marriage and I gave everything I had to make it right for all of us.
2. My WW: I still remember what we had. I miss that person. She is still in there, so I keep chipping away trying to find her. Like with my kids, I want her to know that I fought till the end for her, for our kids and for our marriage. If I persevere and we renew our M, then she will remember this. If we have worst case and the M ends, some day she will also remember and realize that I fought for her and gave everything, that I stood my ground for her.

I like this song and it sort of speaks my mind about #2.

BH,

Do you and Steve talk about an end date if WW doesn't get on board? I know Dr. Harley says up to 2 years for BH to Plan A? You've been almost a year, correct?

Just curious if you have an end date?

BrainHurts,

On end-date we have not discussed a specific date. Over time my energy level will erode and I will start caring less and less, so if there is no change over time then something like plan B (meaning a seperation) would be the next step.

We have discussed the 2 strategies, A and B, and the risks with both. With A, he is telling me the danger is that it runs the risk of reinforcing over time her bad habits, e.g. disrespectfulness, IB, etc.

I think its also important to note that since there is no active affair that these strategies are "like" a plan A and a plan B, but I guess that is just splitting hairs. She is not demonstrating care for me or meeting my ENs, which is what marriage is about of course for each spouse, so I try to demonstrate my willingess to change and persuade her to join me in changing our marriage together through my plan A (which is code for trying my best to meet her ENs, avoid LBs, etc.). At some point if she does not reciprocate, then the next strategy to employ is like plan B, a seperation.

When that point is, I can't say. Its like a race where you don't know how long you need to run, so keeping a steady pace and keeping going is all you can do.

Blackhawk

Thanks BlackHawk for letting us know.

I figured Steve and you had discussed an end date.

We have not discussed a specific date. He has compared it to running a race and eventually the runner at some point says enough and does not want to run anymore and they are done. Where that point is depends on the runner and the course (that last part I added ).

Gotcha. Sorry my misunderstanding.

Marathon races are long. Maybe you'll be doing multiple Marathons?

One marathon is enough, thank you very much

I hear you there.

Blackhawk,

Checking back with you to see how things are going after the summer. What's the latest? Hopeful to hear some good news...

I'll post an update on my movie over in my original thread.

Wishing you the best.

Driven2,

Thanks for thinking about my situation. I just saw your post today, hence the long wait to reply. I don't really have anything new to report. The summer had some good patches and some rough patches, mainly all around this 4-week vacation we took with us and some friends and family in July/August. But since returning in mid-August things have been sort of quiet, but in a neutral/good way.

I continue to work with Steve every couple of weeks and continue my Plan A, and I listen to the radio show each morning when I work out. It has been a year since D-Day, so Steve and I have discussed Plan B but neither Steve nor I think it is appropriate now since my energy level is ok and I am emotionally strong right now. WW and I continue to live together. We are busy with taking care of kids, now kids' school, work, etc. We usually go out as a family every week-end and interact ok at home. Me, I just keep on doing my plan A thing and trying out what Steve suggests. Steve has used this throwing pebbles into a pond analogy before and I guess it is like that, I just keep tossing in my pebbles and waiting for demonstrations of care and physical proximity to have an impact on her.

I saw a post from Marcos some time back where he talked about sudden shifts between hate and dislike, dislike and neutral, neutral and like, and finally like and romantic love. I would say we have shifted now back into neutral (which I guess in Harley-speak would also be the state of mind of conflict). She will try and bait me into fights sometimes when she is frustrated but I do not engage. I am pretty good now at maintaining my calm and thinking before I do anything. I also try to learn from these moments, because they are actually her complaining about something I am or am not doing.

We are actually coming up on the anniversary of OM's death, so Steve and I discussed this last week about her potential reactions. We have a family circus trip and then a mall outing planned for this weekend so will let you know what happens.

Blackhawk

All,

Have a question about DJs after reading a thread in the MB 101 forum by BigPicture where MelodyLane points out he is DJ'ing his wife and he tries to explain he is setting boundries.

WW has lots of AOs in front of kids. When this happens I have taken to saying "let's not yell in front of the kids, let's not teach them this" very calmly and I will firmly repeat this over and over until she stops or storms off. She will sometimes say "stop trying to teach me" or "who are you to tell me what to do."

Question: is she perceiving this as a DJ? Would it be better to let it pass for the moment and then bring it up later when we are alone (and she is calmer)?

I am afraid I am LBing her when I set these boundries the way I am doing. When we did the EN and LB questionnaires back in December 2011, this was the main complaint (DJs).

Blackhawk

BH, there is a big difference between educating a spouse and not tolerating abuse. What your wife is doing is abusive and I agree you should put a stop to it. The best interest of your children trumps all.

Thanks MelodyLane for this clarification. I feel better about my approach. In fact just now at dinner she had a big AO, I calmly and firmly told her to stop, it went on for some time but I held firm. Eventually she backed off and a bit later apologized to me first and then the kids. She also started to cry and said something else is cauing her to be this way (I assume the OM death anniversary but who knows). Now she is nicer and asking me to help her with some stuff.

There are two ways of fighting abuse.
You can challenge the abuse "Please do not behave like this towards me" or say nothing at all. Let them yell and scream.
Step away and let the abuse go by you. That's what I did. I let her yell and scream.
In India Ghandi never fought physically. He used passive resistance.

Thanks HDW. I use the 'step away' tactic also if the AO is aimed at me and the kids are not around. First though I usually ask her to stop first before I disengage.

My wife would say, "F*** you I hate you"
I would offer her a cup of coffee and walk away.

WW is not that bad anymore, but there were times last year when she could be (and it sucked at that time!). She does get angry if I talk about MB, so I try to be subtle in weaving it into conversations.

There was an interesting segment on Thursday (yesterday my time) on the radio program where Dr. Harley discusses plan A and how a wife/WW can - after building up her emotional walls - reject her husband's showing of affection, i.e. getting her that cup of coffeee, but he says keep trying anyway as this can get in at least some little points in her love bank.

A lot of good topics on the show today, as always!

Ugghhh. The last couple of weeks or so things have been going much better. She has been much more talkative and friendly, and has even started being being flirty sometimes. Incidental touching has greatly increased and she has stopped shying away from my casual touching. Yesterday at DD's b-day party she even stroked my back and called me "such a great husband.".

Then this morning it is like it all went south again, "I hate you," "I'm not your wife," "leave me along." It is discouraging. Back to the plan...

Are you seeing any correlation to anything when she has these mood swings?

What does she say when you ask her?

Last time this happened I think there was an anniversary associated with the dead OM. This time, it sort of came out of the blue as she was waking up this morning. She worked really late last night so she was tired and really cranky. I think she wanted me to get DD up and dressed for school, but she normally does this while I get ready for work. She did not this morning and she and DD overslept. I then got attacked for waking her up.