Hi all, I'm new here....

We've been married 10 months, together for 2.5 yrs, and have known each other for 8 yrs. No kids.

Our relationship has been unraveling since we moved in together, pretty much... it's all been very confusing.

Basically he says I've changed. Any and all mistakes on his part are "justified" because he was reacting to my supposed changes. We're currently in couple's therapy, but I don't think the therapist is any good. Is through a university, and is very low cost... they're graduate students, working on their PhD's over there, but honestly I don't think that lady has half an idea what she's doing. We just go there to complain about each other in front of her, and leave the office seething.

I guess my question is this... how do you fix things if one spouse is convinced the other is the one with the problem? Is there anything that can be done in that situation? Plan A, Plan B approach? And if so, how do you even accomplish that if both spouses are in withdrawal???

Thanks a bunch

SD

Welcome to MB.

The counselor sounds like she is just a divorce facilitator, so I'd just drop her. Most of them are awful.There are a lot of stories around about terrible advice from such 'counselors'.

If you can swing it, for ~$1k you can do the online program here with a coach and access to Dr. Harley.

Is this a first marriage for each of you? The first couple of years of nearly every marriage are a little rough, so don't feel like it necessarily means it's doomed. There is an adjustment period while you learn to live harmoniously together, and like your husband has noted, once you live together you notice things you were blind to before.

Have you read the concepts and looked at the questionnaires?

Basic concepts: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

Love Busters Questionnaire: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4502_lbq.html

Emotional Needs: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html

I wouldn't worry at this point about assigning blame. If your husband wants to say that you are the problem, well, who's to say he's wrong? Ask him to fill out the Q's I linked above to figure out what he needs you to start doing, and what he needs you to stop doing, and get to work on that.

You fill them out, too, and ask him if he'd like to see yours.

Well, probably best to get him to look at the concepts and ask him if he'd do the Q's with you. There's a proper way to share them, let me know if he's willing and I can help guide you through that in the way that Steve Harley had my H and I do it. Some people just thrust them on each other and that almost never turns out well.

Your first step is to stop the bleeding.
Stop going to that college student. If you want an inexperienced therapist just go to Starbuks with your husban and complain to a stranger in there. It would be about as productive and you would at least have some good coffee.

You and your husband need to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement.
Read te articles about it on this website and commit to following it.
Then you need to learn how to negotiate and there is information for that here also

Hello and thanks for your kind replies.

No, we currently cannot afford that kind of money, hence why we ended up at the uni counselors. I would much have preferred a real couselor, believe me.

I'm not so sure if this is a period of adjustment... seems like most of the love is gone. We're doing one last effort with whatever remaining energy we have, but at this point we're both easily discouraged and put on the defensive. We cannot even hold a simple conversation without it ending up in an argument, as we're both always 'reading between the lines' even when there are none to begin with. Our sex life is dead. So much disapointment and so much resentment exists between us. He not the talking type, so in order to keep the peace I bit my lip, but that only allowed more time for our wounds to fester... he says he's been trying to save our marriage, but that I don't see or value his efforts. I feel much the same. I see that we haven't been meeting each other's needs, he just sees a supposed change in me. I feel like someone flipped a switch in his head once we married. Like he felt sure I wasn't going anywhere and stopped trying. I felt neglected, so I started complaining... that's the change he perceives! We're both with one foot out the door by now.

We're going to counseling, but he says is not his thing. He doesn't want to try anything else while we're in this semblance of therapy. I've suggested filling out the questionaires here and developing a plan to fix things, but he replies he's not going to do it my way... then he says I'm the one with the problem, that I should fix it.

I don't know how we can even do the POJA if it is just me that has to do the work. I'm so tiired of fightfing, of crying myself to sleep...everytime I come upon something that I know could be useful to us, I start to get hopeful again, but is no use if he refuses to do it with me. The pain of being alone in this relationship is unbearable, and with my past history remaining in this situatioon could spell a trip to the psyche ward in a not very distant future. O cannot do the work alone... I just don't have the strength anymore.

What are the options? Are there any? I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place... if I don't do anything the relationship is over, but if I do, I might be commiting psychological hara kiri and still it wouldn't guarantee sucess for the relationship.

Your best option is to quit the counseling and enter Plan A.
Counseling has a very low success rate and seeig a student is not effective at all. You would seriously be better off visiting an older married couple for advice than a college kid.

Read about plan A and start it

I've read about it, but it seems like it would be even more detrimental to my mental health. How do you go about that?
Could you point me to examples of people who have done this?

Thanks...

Everyone on these boards has done plan A at some point. The concept is to entice your spouse back into the relationship. You do not do it for ever, you do it for a defined length of time to get your partner to start working MB concepts with you.

Think about how you both felt when you were dating? That is what you are going to feel again if this works. Enough incentive?

How about something like this?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

I'm frozen with fear.... I would love to get that being in love feeling back, but if it doesn't work I'll be in for a lot of mental health trouble. And that I can vividly remember how that feels, and I want as far away from it as possible.

Please, could you direct me to where I can read more about the Plan A approach when there's no affair involved? I can't seem to find much info on that. What do i have to do... eat up what I'm feeling, become all peppy and pretend nothing is amiss? How do people who are in the state I'm in (sad, deflated, disappointed, depressed, angry and resentful at their spouses, etc) accomplish this?

The good news is that I spoke with him and he's willing to read the material here together. We started yesterday, today I'll talk to him about the questionnaires and see how that goes.

SD

SD, the place to start is with the book Lovebusters. Get the books, Lovebusters [2 copies] and the workbook, Five Steps to Romantic Love.

Starting today, commit to never fighting with him again. Can you make that committment?

When you get the books, buy a pink highlighter and a yellow highligher. For the first week, concentrate on chapters 1-5. When you read your book, highlight passages that are important to you in pink, and he does the same with the yellow highlighter in his book. After each chapter, exchange your books and read [to yourself] the things that are most important to each other. When you are done, do the lessons in the back of each chapter and discuss it.

In the meantime, download and take the marital problem analysis. here When you are finished, exchange it but don't discuss it.

Print off these articles and read them while you are waiting for your books.

How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage

Love Busters

Can you do this? And will you commit to not fighting today?

Here is the book, Lovebusters, [2 copies] you can read the first chapter online: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html

the workbook [1 copy]: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6090_step.html

Update: He wants a trial separation.

I know, I know you're all gonna say he's having an affair. Believe me, I've checked. He isn't. No missing time, no weird phone numbers on the record and he doesn't even his own computer (not much of a tech guy) and the records on this computer are open for the world to see. I have the passwords to his accounts... email, fb, myspace, etc. Nothing weird going on in any of them.

So here's what happened. He agreed to read the stuff, but he won't agree to a concrete time. In fact, if it was up to him, he'd never bring it up at all! When i bring it up he says "sure, honey, I'd like us to read the material... just not now"

Despite all this, we've been a week without arguing. Went on three dates, everything was pretty good. Hell, I even felt my libido springing back to life! Then this weekend he started with the DJ, I lost my cool, we got into an argument in the car where he voiced he didn't care about what i thought. At that point I stepped out of the car.

He left... later I guess he felt guilty or something and started texting saying he'd swing by to pick me up if and only if i adhered to his conditions: we do not talk about it. I was still pretty heated and we continued arguing. Later he started saying he wanted to see if maybe separated we could improve things... I didn't agree.

Back home we were both pretty down, so we had a nap. After we woke up he wanted to go out. It took me a while to get going and he got frustrated and angry and headed to the door. I asked to please talk it over (which is teh only way i know of how to resolve conflicts... i'm still not very good at the whole telepathy thing, you see?). He totally lost it, came back from the parking lot banging several doors on his way in, i stated to go into panic attack mode, which made him even angrier for some reason I still don't comprehend, kicked a lamp that was in his way... lamp fell. He proceeded to grab it by the base and begun banging it against the floor repeatedly. Pieces flying everywhere. Me cowering in a corner. Real nice....

He then decided to call the mental health place because I "was acting up"... I admit it wasn't my best night as I was flying high between my fear of abandonment issues and trying to avoid going into a full fledged panic attack, but I wasn't getting in his way, I was pleading with him to please not leave like that... angry and hating my guts. Probably not the best timing, but this is what I meant about my mental health. I wasn't really doing anything to warrant a call to the looney bin, but that's what he felt he needed to do. The talked to him and then me. She wants to evaluate me for meds (antidepressants). I don't like the idea, but fine... i'll concede to the eval.

After all that, the next morning he was nice and took me out to brunch with the pup. While out he begun talking about our relationship, and he mentioned he was 90% done. That he never wanted to get to the point he had gotten (smashing lamp bit) and he considers me a "high risk person", but was unable to elaborate what he means by that. He insists on separting and mentioned he's leaving tomorrow. Meanwhile he's as nice and as sweet as he hasn't been in god knows how long and to me this is pure torture. Why does he behave like that if he's leaving? Why not just leave?

His idea is to go back to being BF/GF. I don't think this will work. Waht will happen is that as long as we're getting along, thigs will be fine, but the moment an issue arises, he's just going to go to his own place and avoid looking for any solutions. I'm most definitely not up for that. The worse part is that he has already purchased a plane ticket to go on vacation to his country for 2 months! Which he bought without even consulting with me as to the dates... just sprung it on me. So this means he leaves now on this supposed temporary separation... then he leaves on his two month vacation... that's going to be almost 4 months by the time he comes back. History (mine, that is) dictates what will happen is that I'm just going to fall completely out of love. He's leaving, I got abandonment issues. Yeah, like hell I'm going to be waiting for him. It hasn't happened before, don't see why it would now. So basically I feel if he wants to leave, that's fine, but we're done. This relationship did not come with a revolving door policy in the terms.

Here's where I don't know what to do... do i state my point as an ultimatum? Do I just eat up what I want to scream from the rooftops and let the chips fall where they may? I still feel we could turn this thing around, but if he's lost hope, I don't know how that can be accomplished. And to top it off, he still insists this is all my fault because I "got depressed"... yeah, like I invented reasons to get depressed about. He had no hand in it...

Very frustrated. Very sad. Very uncertain about the future here. Help?

SD

It sounds to me like he is leaving because he can't stand the fighting anymore. Is that correct?

"His idea is to go back to being BF/GF. I don't think this will work. "

This seems like the best idea, and the premise of MB material. Think about what worked so well originally that you two fell in love. Start off with what works, and then you can try addressing yours and his Angry Outbursts and Disrespectful Judgements. Then tou can have more civil discussions as friends on how to read and do other MB.

He would just rather avoid solving the conflicts. He views them as my fault and mine to solve. I do not see how him moving out will help with that.

SD

In part, the other part is that I'm a high risk persson bit.

I saw that. That is a very curious statement. Did you ask him what, exactly, makes you a 'high risk person'? You do have a right to know that, so he should be open to informing you of what he perceives to be your 'high risk' nature.

Do you want to save your marriage? If you do, my friend, you are going to have to stop fighting. When he makes a DJ, the solution is NOT to lose your cool:


Fighting has all but destroyed your marriage. And it doesn't seem to stop.

There's only so much a given person can stand before losing their cool. I effed up. We both had major temper tandrums the likes of which could rival any 3 year old's. I've been Plan A'ing this to the best of my ability and I slipped on Sat. I think we lost a battle, but not the war. Yes, I do want to save this relationship, but I cannot do this on my own. He has to want it too.

No, there's only so much a given person can stand before trying something different. You've given yourself permission to lose your cool, you see that as the only option you have left!

It is not.

Believe me, I am a reformed cool-loser. I still have the *thoughts* (I want to beat the living snot out of someone right now) but I am in control of my *actions*.