burned out, I would strongly encourage you to take the time to educate yourself about infidelity. Your posts are a reflection of someone who has very little understanding of the causes or the dynamics. That deficit of information is dangerous to your marriage because it means nothing has changed since she had her affairs. If you don't understand the WHY then you can't very well prevent a repeat affair. You and your wife are playing russian roulette with your marriage. You don't have to do that.

I can understand why you are burned out. If you don't understand the why and how, then you know you are always at risk.



Yes, it really is that simple, but I don't think you really get that. Since you don't get that and she doesn't get that, your marriage is vulnerable.

What have the two of you done to accomplish this recovery?

Please be specific. I'm looking for actions.

My wife and I fully understands the damage created by the affair, and have worked hard to address it. I can't think of a thing that she or I could be doing that would have a more positive result.

Answer this: If your spouse were to brutally beat and disfigure you, do you think that you could ever establish a relationship afterwards that was even better than before the injury occurred? Would it matter if they gave you a good reason for the assault vs a bogus reason? I would have much prefer to have been disfigured physically than what occurred.

Looking back, she was determined. We had a great marriage (she still claims that today) but when she began to cultivate the affair, I felt the changes. I tried to be more affectionate, supportive, the things you do to secure a relationship, but she decided to pull away anyway, and give it a try. She exhibited this behaviour before she ever kissed him, before she fell in love with him, and before she became intimate with him. I think we all understand how relationships begin, and they don't occur without effort by both parties whether they are married or not.

There is a point when a married person who goes on to cheat decides to ignore their marriage vows, conscience, the feelings and well being of those who love them, their morality, and proceeds with the cultivation of an affair.

I've been reading this board for a long time, and I notice that far too many of the betrayed try to somehow justify or explain their spouses behaviour by seeing something that was lacking in the marriage, and while that may be occasionally true, sometimes it's just that the wayward found the opportunity for a little variety in life that they thought they could control with someone that they found more attractive in some way than their spouse.

It's as good as anyone could expect??? What the hell kind of marriage is THAT?? If my husband said his marriage was 'as good as anyone could expect" I would be crushed, and would be trying to figure out what we were doing wrong. It sounds like you have resigned yourself to a marriage lived in durance vile.

And stop giving your 'photographic' memory so much credit. EVERY betrayed spouse has "photographic" memory for every imagined or real act or thought their wayward spouse had. The difference between a damaged marriage and a healed one is when the betrayed spouse's "photographic" memory of the damage fades to black.

So, it sounds like you're taking a 'hands-off' approach to your own healing, and you're waiting for something to miraculously happen to relieve you of these feelings. Am I correct? If that is so, why are you here?

Then why don't you understand the simple concept of boundaries and meeting emotional needs?

And this is the reason you don't have a more positive result, because you don't know what you are doing. It is because you are not taking the time to educate yourself. Your marriage has not recovered so that is not very positive. The fact that you are still operating without having the slightest idea WHY she had affairs means you have not corrected the issues that led to her affairs. Your screen name reflects how "positive" your own approach has been.


If my spouse had an affair do I think that I could ever establish a relationship afterwards that was even better than before the injury occurred?

Answer: YES. We do it all the time. There are thousands of couples who have followed Dr Harley's program who have much better marriages today than before the affair. It is standard operating procedure here.

Knowing the REASONS for the affair is part of the solution because you can't very well correct the problems that led to the affair if you don't know them. You have never taken that first step.


They occur when one allows someone out side of marriage to meet her intimate emotional needs. That is what happened. The meeting of ENs comes FIRST. The result is romantic love. Your wife allowed another man to meet her needs.


Once again, this statement reflects an ignorance about affairs. This is why I strongly suggest you get the book Surviving an Affair.


Then you have been reading very selectively because you still don't know what you are talking about.

You are the fat man who is insisting to the skinny people that weight loss is impossible. Instead of insisting that it can't be done, why not ask how it is done? Wouldn't that be the most rational response?

Since the OP is not seeking help for his own marriage, we are moving this thread to Other Topics. It is becoming a distraction on SAA.

This is a manifestation of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. I'm familiar with it. My son has it.

Doesn't matter, BO. Recovering your marriage properly will cause memories to lessen to a point of zero interest to you.

You're saying you have a passionate marriage now, with the memories present? That's amazing! (Especially when you also said your marriage is "as good as anyone can expect". ) Can you imagine how much more passionate your marriage would be when those memories fade to a dim place, like a license plate that you saw when you were ten?

Burnedout,

One of the reasons, DH stated, on one of his radio broadcasts was that the OM offers the illusion of unconditional love. That's very powerful, when the love we receive from our families and spouses often seems conditional and imperfect.

Of course no real relationship is perfect hence the eventual downfall of the affair. Your WW was willing to make a second try for unconditional love because it is such a powerful memory.

I understand what you are saying about memory getting in the way of your recovery, I tend to remember in great detail as well, and the reduction in quality of the sex my W has had with me post OM2 I have never been able to put aside even after 20+ years.

My W does not remember, or at least claim to,taking longer to climax, or not wanting to do what she did with me prior to OM2.

If your W has not told you who else knew about the affair or supported or encouraged it then she has not been completely honest with you, have you considered getting a polygraph for her?

God Bless
Gamma

I'll answer that this way: when my husband and I married, we both agreed that we would be married forever, and that only infidelity would end our marriage.

Well, the infidelity happened. We're still married.

Brutally beating and disfiguring? I equate that to the infidelity that happened. It was a brutal beating and disfiguring. We're still here. We're still together. End of that analogy. I'd like to see her here, posting and explaining that determination. Yes. Sometimes a spouse wants to experience something 'different'. Their loose boundaries allow this. Now you're getting it.

burnedout, the problem may be that you can't/haven't/won't accept that your wife cheated even when your marriage was good/great. It is hard to wrap the mind around that. There is a common belief that a marriage must be lacking or horrible for a spouse to cheat...that the BS drove them to it vs the WS simply chose to.

I know you acknowledge that your wife chose to have an affair but given that you (and she) both say your marriage was good, is that part of the problem?

No, her response is typical of someone who could not articulate the reasons for her deception. That has nothing to do with therapy; it's human nature. Fixed that for you. Yes, they do. But they must squelch those traits in order to pursue the affair. Because he's dealing with humans, who are capable of a lot of different things. It's the human condition. He knows that. He's not going to paint an unrealistic picture. How often do you see a 100% guarantee that something is going to work? Especially when it comes to humans?

Your wife had an affair for years without you knowing and you don't think she's deceptive? I agree that your wife has a character flaw that caused her to have the affair. She has no problem lying to the love of her life. What have you done to make sure she doesn't lie to you like that again?

I was going to let this thread die, but I had to respond to this.
You claim that my wife's boundaries has been loose for decades, and that the reason she had an affair with this person was because it was the one opportunity she had? Interesting diagnosis.

To state that my wife is attractive would be an understatement, and for the first 2 yrs of our relationship she worked in a male dominated business where she was approached on a routine basis by men seeking her attention. I have seen it for myself when out with her when others didn't realize that we were together. In fact, I have seen other women approach her as well. I ask her once how long people had behaved towards her like that, and she said since she was about 13 or 14, and she was used to it.

So if you diagnosis is correct that my wife has had an ongoing issue with loose boundaries for decades, then why doesn't she also have a history with ongoing affairs with multiple men throughout her life when her opportunities have been consistently available? Why no boundaries issues before her affair, during her affair (with other men), or since her affair?

Look,if a spouse has an affair, I realize that their feelings of a deficit in having their needs met, or issues with boundaries may be contributing factors, the bottom line is that person is someone who is capable of being a pathological liar and lacks empathy for others, especially for those who love them, or that they claim to love. It's this personality disorder (which can be diagnosed as sociopath if not psychopathic) that facilitated the affair regardless of other the contributing factors that may have been present, and many of you don't seem to recognize this.

When the dust settles, you are still left with someone who has what most mental health professionals consider an incurable personality disorder whether they remain faithful to your marriage or not.

burnedout, you can hash this out as long as you want to, but the facts remain that your wife's boundaries, even if just with this one guy, are NOT solid. She cheated on you, lied, covered it up, went "normal" for a while, cheated again with same dude, lied to you, covered it up. No matter how you slice it, SOMETHING about this dude made her choose to lower her boudaries and allow this to happen. That means that her boundaries are looser than you are willing to admit!!! What everyone is saying here is that people with true solid boundaries don't lower them, not even for hot dude. Believe me, it would be fun to escape with Mr. Chippendale. I won't do it!! Period! I won't allow myself to get into the situation to do it, period!! My husband has done the most awful things to me, our marriage, my trust, not met my needs, not been receptive to my trying to tell him my needs, but I never let myself get into the situation where I could EVER think of cheating. I know that I am at risk of having an affair, so I just don't do it.

She is not completely "happily" married, or she would never have cheated. There is something that this guy does for her, that meets a need that you aren't or can't. It is up to her to figure out what that is and teach you what that is. Instead of doing that, she chose to turn outside of your marriage, the life have created together to have that need met.

So, please just lose the anger here and try to find the silver lining in what everyone is TRYING to get you to realize. This will help you burnedout!!!! We are on your side. We see things that YOU DO NOT SEE!!! You are too close to it and too entrenched in your way of thinking to see it or consider another aspect.

The proof of your wife's poor boundaries is her affair with the OM. The only reason she has not had other affairs [that you know about] is because the others did not hit the mark successfully. Just because a person has poor boundaries does not mean they will have affairs with every person, or even more than one person. It only means their love bank store is OPEN and if the RIGHT shopper comes along, there will be a SALE.

If it were not open then she could not have fallen in love with the OM. In order for her to fall in love with the OM, her lovebank had to have been OPEN. She allowed him to meet her intimate emotional needs and THEN she fell in love with him.

THAT is how it happens. People fall in love when their intimate emotional needs are MET. And the lovebank has to be OPEN in order for that to happen.

The fact that you don't understand this dynamic is why we keep telling you that you need to educate yourself about affairs. You clearly don't know what you are dealing with and because of this, are likely headed to another affair.

In other words, if someone else comes along who hits the mark as successfully as the OM, she would have another affair because she is open for business!

Does she have any opposite sex friendships?

Now this is just silly. This statement shows a complete lack of understanding of the mindset of an unfaithful spouse, and the anecdotal evidence of FWS's on this site alone shoots the statement completely down.

Are you just here to argue?

This was a long term affair.
Stop making excuses.
You need for WW and you to be tested for STD's. Symptoms do not always appear.
Paternity test because your WW is a liar. Because she has been honest about some of the affair does not mean she has been 100% truthful.
Stop making excuses for not being able to contact OMW. There are lots of things that can be googled. Then there always are the services of a PI. The OMW must be told.