He wasn't able to explain it very well. I think is a mixture of two things: first, he doesn't want to do something stupid like break something else... and since it is all my fault, well that means I made him do that and he's afraid of what else I might make him do. The second thing is that I've been unofficially diagnosed as having dysthymia (sp?), and it might be possible I'm in a major depressive episode on top of that (basically a double depression). I've had to call the hotline twice in the last month as I was having a good dose of suicidal ideation. I think he views that as high risk for him bc if in the very unlikely case I kill myself, it would land him in god knows what psychologic al state

Losing your cool and throwing a temper tantrum is NOT Plan A. And you are losing your marriage because of it. As long as you believe that he causes you to lose your temper, this will not get resolved. YOU are the only person who has the power to lose your temper.

You have to stop fighting if you want to save this. You don't have the luxury of losing it anymore. It is well past that point.

I agree it would be a good idea to separate. Go to a doctor and get your depression under control while you learn how to control your temper.

Dr. Harley's first step in anger management is to acknowledge that only you make yourself lose your temper. Nobody can make you get mad (lose your cool); that is something you do to yourself.

So, your statement that there's only so much a person can stand before losing their cool is incorrect, and if you continue to hold to it, then this problem cannot get better.

SadnDepressed - I'm sorry to hear what you're experiencing. I can tell it is taking a serious toll on you and your husband.

You've been given some great advice, not sure what I'll be able to add to it beyond restating the same ideas.

Harley's proven method for creating and maintaining marriages that not only last but thrive is to help people learn to consistently do the things that make their spouses feel great and avoid doing things that make their spouses feel lousy. When both spouses become experts at both of these things, they fall in love with each other and stay in love with each other. It is wonderfully simple.

It seems you and your husband have reversed that equation - you've stopped doing the good stuff and started doing the bad stuff - a lot. Now your husband wants out. Until your husband once again sees being married to you as something desirable, something that is going to make him happy, he will not likely have any interest in returning to your marriage. He may not feel much obligation to your marriage at this point, especially after so short a time and with no children.

Addressing this situation is simple... but not easy - you need to change in ways that show your husband that being married to you is going to make him feel great and not make him feel bad. He needs to want to choose you again. Right now he's looking at other options that he thinks are more likely to make him happy, alternatives to staying married to you.

I'm not saying he doesn't also need to change to meet your needs and protect you from his love busters. But he is the one who is in the process of leaving. He isn't interested in changing right now. You can't guilt him in to staying and changing. That won't last. You have to attract him back to you - like you attracted him to you when you first met.

If you can't do this, I doubt your marriage will last. I've heard you say you just don't have the emotional resources to meet his needs and avoid lovebusting against him. Well, could you tell him this and ask for patience while you get in a better place emotionally?

Do you really feel you cannot control your behavior? Can you really not avoid lovebusting against him? Can you really not start meeting his top two emotional needs in a satisfying and consistent way? I'm not saying it is easy. But if you can't, why would he stay? If you can and do, I believe the dynamics of your relationship will change and he will be motivated to come back and work on your developing relationship.

What exactly do you think your husband wants from you? What changes does he want you to make?

BWS

Yes, that's exactly what's going on...


When we first started dating (we met long, long before that) I was in a very good place emotionally. He says the thing that attracted him most about me then was my energy and my general outlook about life. Depression has taken all of that away. I've been in therapy for a while now as he kept blaming my past trauma for the lack of sex. So in an effort to meet his top need of SF I got myself in to work through that trauma. I told him it was going to be a process, it might get worse before it gets better, as I've found that's usually the case when you stir the pot of the past during the therapy sessions. I asked if he would be able to be there for me to offer emotional support. He said he would, but he wasn't really there for me. I asked why, he said he didn't know how. I brought materials over for him to read so he would know how. He used them as scrap paper and never read a single word past the title. After that he never tried a thing. He insists he wasn't able.

You are correct, this has taken a huge toll on both of us. For me it's this depression that keeps deepening. His neglect weighs heavily on me... it just encourages the negative self talk and it takes some serious effort and energy in order to stop that. Energy I have a very short supply of.

I've asked him to be patient. His answer is he isn't able. He isn't able to offer emotional support, to empathize, to be patient.

I've spread myself very thin trying to do it all... work on my issues, fight this depression, try to meet his needs, on top of everything else in my life which seems to be about to tumble as well, without much emotional support from my husband... I want with all my heart to save this relationship, but I'm unsure, given my personal situation, if I'm going to go anywhere with it if I tackle this by myself.



What I said about a person being only able to handle so much before losing their cool is being misunderstood. Perhaps I didn't exactly express myself correctly, as English is not my first language. I know no one can really make anybody else do a darn thing. I lose it bc it is the easiest reaction to implement. There are several reactions that would probably be more favorable, but take a certain degree of energy and stability I do not have a lot of these days; so an AO is the easiest reaction because it requires almost no effort. The only other reaction that comes almost naturally to me is to do nothing and shut down. I don't know if that would be more helpful to the relationship... i have a feeling you'll probably say it's preferable to an AO. It just happens to go against several years of training through therapy. I had to train myself to NOT shut down. I know there are so many other more favorable behaviors I could have in reaction to his DJ and AO, but I really just don't have what it takes to stop the panicky feelings, the rushing thoughts, the conflicting emotions, etc, AND think about my reaction before the reaction becomes an action on my part. I don't know if that even makes any sense to you guys.

As far as his two top EN... well, he hasn't done the questionnaires, but I gather SF is very high up there. I've been trying to meet that one despite all my issues. I'm not sure what his other top priorities are... what he says he wants the most is to NOT TALK. I've been trying to honor that, but I'm not very consistent about it. I've definitely gotten better at it, but is just very hard to not want to try to fix this situation, and the only way I know how is to gather info, and I can only do that verbally. Basically to me what he asks is to just swipe things under the carpet. I can do it for so long before I feel overwhelmed and have the need to talk... to try and fix what's going on.



He wants me to leave him be. He doesn't want to talk... and I'm not even saying argue because, really... who likes to argue anyways. Plain talking... information gathering, insightful conversation... he's put off by all of it.
That's what I have the most trouble with. When he does his ambiguous things and I get confused, I don't know how to go on without trying to understand what's going on, what the motivation is behind an action. How do I just stay confused and wondering for a month... two... three? I can barely last two weeks.

The other thing he repeatedly says he misses is my 'not depressed' self. Steps are being taken to alleviate that. Believe me, no one wants me to get over this depression more than myself, but it's just not so simple.. it takes time. They keep selling me medication as the ticket out of here. I know I have been able to overcome depression without meds before, but if this will speed things up, I'll try them. I'm not too excited about all the side effects, and the dependency they create, but I'll try anything once, i guess. I'm really concerned about the sexual side effects as it will definitely affect my ability to meet his SF need. It feels sometimes like i'll be just swapping problems around. It really frightens me.

Thanks for your kind words, BWS.

SadnDepressed, I see a few things that are leading to your depression and have some suggestions. The first is going to "therapy" to resolve problems of the past. Bringing the sadness of the past into the present is a sure fire way to cause depression. It is a waste of your time that will resolve nothing but cause great harm to your present life. This, along with a bad marriage are causing your depression. I would quit therapy and get on anti-depressants.


Your husband should not be placed in a position to have to "wait" for his marriage while you go waste time in "therapy." That is not fair. He got married so he could be happy in a good marriage. NOW. Asking your husband to "wait" while you work through some old trauma is unreasonable and unfair to him. You are not working through anything, but rather causing trauma in your present life. As you can see, it is wrecking your marriage.


I would focus on conversation that he finds PLEASANT. He finds any interaction with you to be unpleasant so I focus on being as pleasant as possible. Start by quitting the therapy, getting on anti-deps and being as pleasant as possible.

If you can swing the cost, you might want to try counseling with the Harleys. They might be able to give you a plan and persuade your husband to give you another try. It is pricey [$225?] but it shouldn't take too many sessions and it would be good for your marriage instead of harmful.

Do you have a sexual aversion? What is up with that?

No, I understand it completely correctly. It is the same kind of thing I used to tell myself.

Telling yourself this is causing problems. You can't fix your problem with "losing it" until you quit clinging to this justification.

Don't take my word for it: listen to the many wonderful recordings of Dr. Harley talking about angry outbursts. He is the expert, not me. I'm just repeating to you the things that I have learned from the man who actually knows how to fix these problems.

It makes perfect sense. I understand it completely. You are in the right place to get help for this, and I suggest you start taking the advice you are given rather than trying to defend yourself or explain you are misunderstood or whatever else. This is a crisis and you need to do something.

Click BrainHurt's link and start reading and listening.

here

here

I notice you have only been married 10 months. Was this a recurring theme when dating?

I think others have really addressed the depression issue well - one thing I would recommend, as someone who also suffered from depression (mine was postnatal), was that exercising together with my husband really helped. Exercise helps depression - but doing it together (jogging outside, or spotting each other on the weights) also made for some fantastic UA time too. With the exercise, it helped me avoid any AOs. AOs are a huge problem when you have a short fuse with depression. We don't get permission to abuse our spouses as a result of the illness.

Therapy doesn't work for everybody, but it surely has worked for me. Perhaps this particular therapist i was seeing wasn't not very helpful. I'm on a waiting list to see a different one in two weeks. On another waiting list to see the psychiatrist for the eval for the meds. That one takes 8 weeks. I would not take the meds without still seeing a therapist. I do not believe you can work through a rape and abuse with just pills.

My depression is caused in large part part by the bad marriage, but not processing stuff from the past that keeps me stuck is surely not going to help alleviate it. Instead it will further hinder my healing process.


Yes, it is not fair. That's why i asked at the time he insisted i go into therapy if he was willing to wait, and willing to be there for support. He said he would. I explained to him the situation and the process with therapy. I told him I knew this was a heavy load to place on him, and gave him an out. He said he wanted to stay, he wanted to help me.. help US.

We've known each other for nearly 9 years. He knew about my trauma as it happened. He knows of my struggles with depression since, he has been there every step of the way. It was not like this wasn't something I didn't disclose. He knew from the get go violence will send my PTSD symptoms through the roof. He knows about the nightmares, the shut downs, the panic attacks. Why would he chooses to act violently knowing my history?



That's what I've been trying to do for almost two weeks now. That's what I've been trying to do since Sunday. Sat I slipped and it seems to have erased the two previous weeks of good times, pleasant interactions and sex we've had. Understandable, I guess. He's at a breaking point. Not enough incentive in the relationship. I get it.

I cannot afford much of anything. If I was, i would have jumped on it. My hours at work have been reduced and it looks like they might want to eliminate my position. Meanwhile the business i'm trying to get off the ground is moving along, but at a slow rate. Now with him leaving, I'm going to end up having to pay for everything, and I really don't know from where I'm going to get the money.

I cannot get choosey about my therapists because I'm on programs from the government. If I had insurance or was able to afford a therapist either for myself or for the two of us, I would be shopping around like, yesterday. Unfortunately I have to make do.

He still sounds like he wants to move out, but I don't see him doing anything. This is what I mean about his ambiguous things. He says one thing, but his actions say the opposite. Still uncertain about our future.

Worked... how? You are depressed! But you can remove the source of the trauma, which is THERAPY and a bad marriage. Like Dr Harley says, bringing the trauma of the past into the present CAUSES depression. And here you are ..... depressed! As a former counseling junkie, I know first hand it causes depression. You cannot resolve the problems of the past. If "working through" your tramatic past means bringing the past into the present, you will be perpetually stuck. And perpetually depressed. Its just simple logic. If you talk about past traumatic events, you will stay tramatized.


You will stay stuck longer if you keep going to therapy to discuss your past. And your marriage won't survive that. Your husband is already on his way out.

You don't have to go to therapy to get anti-depressants. You can get into see any MD and get them. He will help you choose the best one for you.


But you are not helping "US." You are hurting the marriage by keeping your focus on the past when you have more serious problems at hand. When the Titantic is sinking you don't go and boil tea in the kitchen.


You are driving him away with all this. Please get yourself on anti-depressants and get yourself under control. I don't know many spouses who could endure this behavior. You have managed to drive a brand new marriage right into the ground in a less than a year. It is time to take a new approach, dear.



Did you see how your efforts were making an impact? Yes, you fell off the horse, but you can get right back up on it! It was working!!


Just going to a "therapist" is not going to help you since most are destructive to marriages. You would be better off using the free resources on this forum. Let those of us who have gone through the MB course help you out. You can also get help on the free radio show.


That gives you an opportunity to make lovebank deposits if you will use it.

Dr Harley just mentioned on the radio show that Wellbutrin does not diminish sexual desire.

No it wasn't. I wasn't depressed then. I wasn't even in therapy. I didn't have a job, but I was working towards my degree and setting up my own business. I felt great, I was active, I had a positive outlook on life (something that takes serious conscious effort on my part as it is not my default). I was happy.

I did have some panic attacks following sex the first few weeks (well, maybe 2-3 months). Not pleasant for either party, but I haven't been able to NOT have them when I first start sleeping with someone new since the rape. After a while I guess I adjust and they don't happen anymore. I haven't had one during sex since. Despite knowing this, and me explaining it to him, he finds it deeply hurtful that I had the panic attacks... like he thinks I should have known he is not going to hurt me, therefore me having an attack is evidence that I think he's a SOB. I think he still carries that with him.

PTSD is always been something i've had to deal with to a certain degree. I have good stretches with almost no symptoms at all. However my startle response is never been the same (it was almost non existent). This was sort of amusing for him in the beginning... i would laugh at it too. But when something sets me off, just the phone ringing sends my heart rate up, makes me jump, etc. It get's annoying.. i get it, i have to live with it. I do not know of a way to completely eliminate it. The more depressed I get, the more conflict I have to deal with, the easier it is to set this thing off. There's always going to be some conflict in life, so I guess i'm stuck with it. Frustrating.

Exercising together sounds good in theory. We used to do it, in fact. I stopped doing it because there was no UA really. It was more like me riding/jogging/roller-blading behind him. Him with his ipod. Me just watching him from behind. Not fun... I'll see if he's up to something we can do together.

I agree illness is not an excuse to treat others disrespectfully, but neither is it an excuse for others to look down on us and disrespect us. Having been to hell and back does not make one less of a human being.

You and your DH have gotten into a script on how you deal with problems. There are other scripts.

For example, if my DD1 bumped into DD2 accidentally, DD2 goes to DEFCON5 immediately...yelling, "How rude", much overreaction. DD1 would not take responsiblity. Because DD2 is not just seeing a bump, but everything DD1 ever did to her ever. And they just have a typical sibling relationship.

If I was to bump into her, I would say "sorry" and DD2 would say "that's okay."

So she uses a different script with me for how an incident like that would be handled.

What other script can you use with your DH? You think there is only one, but clearly the one you are using isn't working for you.

Maybe you remove yourself physically from the situation.
Maybe you two use a journal to commuicate.
Maybe you say "I am feeling upset now, I would like to talk about this later."
Maybe you come up with ground rules on how to discuss an issue...like No Name Calling, Eiter party can put the discussion into a time out.
Maybe you discuss the issue with a 3rd party.

Thanks for that info! Reading about it seems like it would be a good medication for me... but I guess that's for the Dr to decide. I'll bring it up when I have the eval.

When did you move in together?