Hi all,
I guess I'm sort of looking for any advice or helpful experiences from folk who've been in a similar situation. I'll try to keep this post brief, although I'm open to divulging more details if people need further context. If your eyes glaze over, here's the basic question:
Can I Save Our Marriage by depositing love tokens at an extremely low rate?

My wife and I met in college freshman year, dated for 6 years, and have been married for 9 years, with 2 children (6.5 and 4 years old). After finally relenting, after a stubborn stance against it, my wife and I finally went to go see a marriage counselor earlier this year (late May). It was there that my wife for the first time said, "I don't love my husband anymore". And from there, it felt like my life begun spiraling downhill. We've spent the following 4-5 months, in sort of a living hell. Essentially, arguing 5/7 days a week, employing several Love Busters on my part, and some on hers. This summer, and now early fall have not helped my case. My wife signed a lease to for a new apartment a month or two ago, and is finally moving out this weekend.

BUT, I have some pause for hope (and I owe an awful, tremendous LOT of it to MarriageBuilders principles, which I didn't discover until late July/August). I know that if we both attempted them, we'd succeed. But I've been still employing Love Busters (Selfish Demands to an extent, and Disrespectful Judgements are my main two, by far)



Summary

What Gives Me Hope
She's remained this entire summer and early fall.
She read a lot of MB.com info years ago, and wanted to see a counselor, etc.,
And she listened to all of His Needs, Her Needs, and read some of Love Busters.
She's still willing to see a marital counselor

What Crushes My Hope
*My wife briefly, had an emotional affair with a co-worker. It culminated in a brief kiss, and he's since left the company. I truly do believe this affair to be over (he's since left the company) and not a factor in our current state (she told me everything, and I couldn't have found out if I wanted too.
*I have been unsuccessful at seeing her daily (we sleep separately in the same house) and not trying to convince her to stay and "try". She sees trying as a major risk, and since she she's "no value" in our relationship, she she can't see enough benefit to take that risk
*Also, because we've been at odds, and she considers our marriage already done, there's been no physical intimacy or contact all this time, and that's been extremely difficult to deal with on my part
*Some of my wife's closets friends are divorcees, and while they have not advised her to leave. They have not been advocates of staying for the sake of staying.
*My wife claims and seems to believe, that we could never change enough to be happy with each other. She also believes that marrying me was a mistake.
*Finally, the major hope crusher is: She refuses to go beyond seeing a marriage counselor in hopes of furthering communication. Basically, she only wants to address symptoms and not the illness.

Sorry for this incoherent post. Please, I'd welcome any advice from anyone who's been in and through a similar situation. I feel like we can work out, but that because of hurt (and some resentment since she felt I didn't care), she's unwillingly to give any additional effort. But if I can maintain, or endure, and show some progress, we have a chance. But what can I do If I can't deposit Love Tokens (or at least, not an appreciable rate).

First off, Welcome to Marriage Builders!. .. yes one spouse can save the marriage. You lead the way and your wife will eventually follow... Feelings follow actions. Both you and your wife have probably put life ahead of your marriage (kids ... work .. etc) and as a result you have grown apart. Are you aware you need 15 hours a week of undivied attention to sustain romantic love meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs?

GOing to an MC is a waste of time .. they have an 84% failure rate and the highest rate of divorce of any occupation, they facilitate divorce and try and get you to spend YEARS in there starting from your child hood. MCs dont know jack about restoring romantic love. YOur money is better spent on the coaching center here.

Here is a few links for you to explore. I am sure some other vets will be along shortly.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8118_real.html _ romantic love .. is it realistic for marital therapy.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5009_qa.html - Can a marriage be saved by one Spouse. (there is several more on the navigation to the left after visiting these links.. please explore.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_wife.html - How to make your wife happy.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8110_ul.html - whats wrong with unconditional love?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_care.html - caring for children MEAN caring for each other.

MNG

Marriage builders is an action based program that is FAR more effective

Yes .. Snoop on your wife .. install a keylogger on your PC www.desktopshark.com (10$ gets you a one install licence and 50$ gets you unlimited install licence) .. You will have to be covert about this.. James bond style. be the best hubby you can possibly be without expectations of reciprocation.. IF you find anything that resembles an affair .. (emotional or physical)DO NOT CONFRONT .. bring it here and we can guide you with the next steps.

You need to be in PLAN A my friend. Discover your wifes top needs .. and begin meeting them while you snoop .. and NO MORE LOVEBUSTING!

Its pretty obvious to the objective eye that there is an affair behind all this. Women don't leave unless they have someone else lined up. The fact that she says she is not "in love" means she has a new point of comparison.

Did you expose her affair previously?

My suggestion is to start spying like a bloodhound, get the evidence and come back here. We will help you with next steps.

Preamo, in my experience, even with times when my wife has been completely unwilling to see a counselor or even to work this program (Marriage Builders), I have still been able to win her over to enthusiasm by eliminating my own love busters and making love bank deposits.

You would need to really, REALLY get after it. Contact Dr. Harley on his radio program, and start listening DAILY. Find out what your wife is missing in life, and GIVE IT TO HER.

What symptoms is it your wife wants to address? Those probably are the causes, from her point of view. Why don't you address those things, and then see what's left?

Well, mister, if you are going to keep committing those offenses, you have no hope. Can you stop them? If you cannot stop them, I recommend you seek professional help.

And I don't just mean stop all the things that YOU think are Selfish Demands and Disrespectful Judgments. You need to stop all of the things that YOUR WIFE thinks are Selfish Demands and Disrespectful Judgments.

Can you do this? You cannot force your wife to recover your marriage with you, but if you drop the demands, you may be able to make enough deposits in her love bank that she will want to be with you forever. But that simply will not happen if you are demanding and disrespectful. Dr. Harley says these must be ELIMINATED. And he also says that if your wife thinks you are being demanding or disrespectful, YOU ARE.

In your opinion, what are the symptoms she wants to address?

In your opinion, what is the illness that she does not want to address?

Preamo,

When was your wife's affair, and when was the counseling? I strongly agree with the advice to snoop like a bloodhound. If there is an active affair going on, there is no way that you can make love bank deposits and recover your marriage, so if she has any sort of contact with the guy, you will need to disrupt that.

WOW. Thanks all for the replies.

Regarding my wife's affair, to my knowledge, it spanned a 3-4 month period, ending in early-July. We talked about it fairly in-depth. My spouse is a very attractive woman (and spiritual/religious for whatever it's worth). I point this out because she's ALWAYS being hit on. From the time we met at age 18, til now at 33. I (mainly due to my "arrogance", her faith in Christian principles, and the fact that I was her first) NEVER considered her infidelity possible. However, maybe a year or two ago, she came to me and said that she'd begun noticing other guys. Not being attracted to mind you, just noticing. I brushed that off at first, because I certainly "noticed" other females. But I knew that if I was affair-resistant, than she was affair-proof. Anyway, I now have realized that her admission of noticing other guys meant: I used to feel icky about there comments and flattery, but now I appreciate them and look at the giver in more than a passing context. In other words, I used to only have eyes for you, but now, not so much.

Fast forward to this year, my wife has always told me about guys hitting on her, and back in mid-June sometime, we were discussing our relationship (really, her desire to leave and why I didn't want it), and that's when she said that she'd had some personal e-mails with this work guy. She felt awful about it, and remorseful, but she also said that "if he weren't married, than maybe she would have been more open to pursue it". However, he was married (allegedly, him and his wife were having issues too--which seemed all to convenient and a ready-made long-con excuse for them to bond). After some tears, and further talk, I moved on, because I assumed there relationship was going to end (it was 70% e-mail and 30% him stopping by her desk).

Sometime in late-July though, my wife told me about the physical part. Which was that he was leaving the company (along with others in his dept.) and they rode together to the happy-hour going away party. On there way back, he gave her a heart-felt love letter, they kissed, and that was the end of it. She also claims that they've had only 1 contact since than, in which he e-mailed her, and she broke it off, stating how she was a married woman, and he was a married man.

Again, for whatever little it's worth, while I DO feel like the affair was a factor in our predicament, I'm fairly convinced that is all it was, and that it's done (However, I am strongly considering the private-eye route, just for my peace of mind, because where there's smoke, there's usually figure). That's not too say that she's not still vulnerable, especially since she admitted if he had been single, she may have let it go further. Which ironically, is one of the reasons my wife wants to be separated (basically, she'd feel less icky dealing with a guy if she's separated and married, rather than co-habitating and married).

We are not rich by any standards, however, we do (gift and curse I suppose) earn enough income that the plan is for her to move out (this Saturday), she'll continue to pay her end of our mortgage, and other expenses, and such. The kids will live here for the first two weeks, and than alternate households weekly.

The thing is, up until yesterday, the plan was for US to move her stuff to the new place, and her live here indefinitely, with us sleeping separately, and her only "fully" moving into her apartment or sleeping there, IF we continue to have heated and emotionally hurtful arguments. She was willing to see a MC (I know, wasteful and such, but I was happy for anything she was willing to give on). And that's about it. She wasn't willing to meet any emotional needs, and she was not willing to admit or acknowledge any possibility or desire to improve our marriage.

Speaking to my Love Busters that I've been struggling to stop. Basically,and this might sound shallow, but the lack of physical affection is killing me. After listening to His Needs, Her Needs, I learned a lot about myself, my desire for it, and why at times during our marriage, my wife did not share that desire. Point being, after having been with my wife for all of my adult life, needless to say "physical intimacy" is and has been a consistent and big part of my life. So it's been very difficult to go on, indefinitely, and not have that need me. But since she doesn't recognize us as still being "married", and since that need isn't as high on her list, coupled with the fact that she feels it's something we need to ween ourselves off of since divorce is inevitable.

That all means that I resort to Selfish Demands (i.e., let's have __, we're still married!) and Disrespectful Judgments (i.e., you leaving me is a bad idea. Think about the kids? Think about our vows)

Sorry if my attempts to respond to the aforementioned questions were missed, in my haste to respond. I'd like to say thanks again, for those who've been in similar situations and expressed hope. That's what I've been running short on lately, and caused me to revert to my Lover Busters. Again, I'm open to any advice or questions.
She's going to come home in a couple hours, and after the kids go to bed, she'll begin packing and final prep for the move tomorrow.
Again, I am wondering if it's worth it, or wise to continue to encourage her to stay here, even if all we're doing is seeing a MC, and watching TV together from time to time, and than going to bed in two separate areas like complete strangers.
OR
If I should let her go, "allow" her to live in her apartment for sometime, and ONLY if, and when she's ready to come back, than we work on our marriage using MB principles?

Preamo, you can't stop her from moving but you can decide to not cooperate with her moving out and her affair scheme.

Let me tell you what is going on. She is moving out so she can carry on her affair with the co-worker without interference. The plan is probably for him to eventually leave his wife. The OM is likely telling her he will leave some day just to keep her on the string so she will continue having sex with him.

She plans on moving out and telling people that your marriage just didn't work out. The plan is to file for divorce when the time is right and then act like she started this relationship after separated so it will be more palatable to others.

She is trying to hide the fact that she is leaving you for another man.

If you don't believe me, hire a PI and have her tailed for a few days. You will find an OM.

And if you don't take steps to kill this affair immediately, you will lose your marriage.

You are making serious strategic mistakes because you don't understand what is really happening behind your back. When you find the affair I would IMPLORE you to avoid the MC at all costs. Marriage counselors are destructive to marriages under normal circumstances, but they are a disaster when there is an affair because they don't understand the FOG. They serve to validate wayward fog at the expense of the marriage.

The answer is to eliminate the competition. If you can get the goods on the affair, we can help you eliminate the OM and kill the affair. Once you do that, your attempts at making lovebank deposits will be effective. Right now her lovebank is closed to you because it is open to someone ELSE.