But dh is depressed about his job AGAIN mainly because of 2 new crisis (sp?) at his job. He doesn't know what else he could do other than find a new practice. But being a practicing orthopaedic surgeon means call which is what he hates... So he needs someone to help him think outside the box.

How about teaching in so far as at a medical school?

Well, I don't know that I would pay Steve Harley $200 per hour to provide specialised career advice in a field (surgery) in which he is not an expert. If your H really does need specialised advice he could go to a specialist, but he must know by now that his career must serve his marriage. That means no solo travel and hours that allow him to make UA time with you. Therefore, any help that a specialist gives must be be filtered through MB requirements.

tc made an excellent suggestion. What do you think of that? What would your H say?

Are there no circumstances under which surgeons could work regular hours? I think that here in the UK, private practice would be much more likely to involve elective, and therefore planned, surgery. It is our National Health Service that deals with almost all emergencies, and where doctors would need to be on call. I know that your system is all private, but aren't there clinics for specific needs - like cosmetic surgery? How often is that an emergency? Could he work in a specialist clinic?

Is your H thinking outside the box for himself, and are you helping him?

I seem to remember that Dr harley once ran a chain of addiction clinics. Is is from his involvement with addiction that he developed his approach to infidelity.

Is there a similar approach that your H could take - away from hands-on surgery and into management?

And with his career move, you might be able to move living areas as well, and perhaps entrust your daughter to a school, since you seem to dislike doing home education now. You would then be less burned out with family commitment.

There could be many positives to a career move.

But I am still uncertain about how to get him to call when the website says 90 percent of his cases involve infidelity and that isn't our problem!! He isn't going to understand.

then tell him what the problem is. Is that what you're having issues with? How to be honest with your husband?

Ok so I say this:

You have been so unhappy with your job and it making you so stressful. I think you need someone to help you think out of the box. Here is a person you can call.


So.. he looks at the page and says this person does marriage counseling for couples that have been unfaithful.

Do you see why he would be confused???

But if he reads some of the articles here, he'll see how useful all of the information is. I've never had an affair & I'm all for signing up for this program.

I think people balk at it because they don't want to make any huge changes - job with no travel, etc OR they don't want to get honest.

How about something like:

"Honey, I want us both to be blissfully happy in our marriage. I think to do that, there are some aspects of our marriage that could use some attention. We've tried our best on our own but there is an expert that I'd love to try by the name of Dr. Harley. Would you be willing to give him a call with me?"

That's really what you want right? For both of you to be happy in your marriage? Let Dr. Harley address the work issue in how it affects the marriage. Your job should be to get your H onboard with MB.

Honestly, it isn't the work issue exactly but it makes Him SO unhappy (like when he had to work so much this past week on top of the 2 crisis) I will post how he spent his time the past month. The first week I didn't keep track as closely. He was happy the first 3 weeks but not the 4th week.

Week 1 Sept. 30 (Sketchy, didn�t write down the details. UA time include the camping by the pond I talked about..)
Work 57 hours
Family 18 hours
UA time 12.5
Mission work 3
Errands 2
Sleep- around 49 hours but didn�t write down actual details
Total 141.5

Week 2 Oct 8th ( off from Thurs middle afternoon through weekend, took camping trip with me my daughter. Boys were at youth retreat. This was the POJA I talked about earlier that no one ever gave me any advice about.)
Work 46 hours
Sleep 46 hours
Family 36 hours
Packing Trailer- 7 hours
UA time 5 1/2
Individual Chores- 5
Getti ng ready 4
Church- 3
MASH/Dinner 2
Computer 2
Mission 1
Total: 157.5


Week 3 Oct 15th
Work 52 hours
Sleep 52 hours
Family 15 hours
Individual Chores 14 hours
UA time 9 1/2hours
Getting ready( shower, breakfast, quiet time) 7 hours
Time with relatives 5 hours ( Uncle was in the hospital, cousin and family stayed with us)
Church 3 � hours
Computer 2 hours
Dinner/Mash 2 hours
Running Errands 2 hours
Mission Work 1hours
Around 165 hours

Oct 22nd ( on call over the weekend)
Work 82 hours
Sleep 49 hours
Family 10 hours
Getting ready ( shower, breakfast, quiet time) 5 hours
UA time- 5 hours
Errands 2 hours
Mission work- 2hours
Chores- 2 hours
MASH/Dinner 1 �
Computer- 1hour
Relatives � hour
Total 163 hours



To me, other than the on call week, it is more a matter of being intentional with his time.

I did e-mail Dr. Harley yesterday with this question. I mean he meets my needs: gives me affection, great sex now, and conversation. He has always been transparent with me. He doesn't love bust: doesn't get angry or give me disrespectful judgements or whatever. If you add up the time of UA and family as well as individual chores, he is home A LOT with the exception of when he is on call once a month. ( This past weekend was a bad one. They aren't always, you just don't know. He basically worked 13 hours each day or more FRi, Sat and Sun) He loves me and says there will be plenty of time for us to be alone when the kids are gone in 8 years.

That's strange about the on call. I have a few friends that does what your husband does and they work in a clinic and schedule their surgeries. They don't work Fri through Sun because they don't want to do surgeries on those days so they can stay at home with family and play golf. They also work from 7 am to 5 pm as they control their surgery schedule.

what does he say when you tell him waiting 8 years to spend more time with him does not work for you? Life is unpredictable--none of us are guaranteed we will still be here in 8 years. It sounds like he is not hearing how unhappy you are? Would he be surprised if he read your thread posts?

I hope you would consider talking on the show to Dr. and Mrs. Harley. I think the folks who do that do get more help because of the ability to have a discussion with them (instead of just them answering your email on the show).

Another option would be for you to schedule a phone counseling appointment with Steve Harley for yourself, where you explain what your issues are, then he helps you figure out how to present phone coaching to your husband. I haven't done that, but have heard on the forum that that works well.

I hear you telling us, it's not a marriage problem, it's a career problem. But I think you need to acknowledge that it IS a marriage problem for you. You were just a bit dismissive (unintentionally I'm sure) of CWMI's response a few days ago, but I think you might have more success if you are totally honest with yourself that the way things are isn't working for you.

I have been a physician for 30 years and have seen the toll that "usual" physician hours can take on marriages. But different hours are possible, thinking outside the box. We (mostly) all hate call, but it has to be done, people break bones at unpredictable hours. But fewer office hours, fewer surgery hours, can be done.

What was his response to the info you sent with him on his mission trip weeks ago? (maybe you covered it already, sorry if I missed it)

Boy, my husband would love that!!!! But here in the states in order to operate in a hospital you must take call. Once you get to be 60 they allow you to stop taking call and you may still use their facilities. I wonder who does all the trauma that comes in for your friends? He had a couple of infected total joints, a couple of car wreck victims and elderly ladies who fell and broke their hips. Believe me, he schedules NOTHING on the weekends. But if he is on call and they come in, he must go. Like I said, there are some weekends where he gets to stay home and do a few calls over the telephone of things that can wait to be seen on Monday, but it wasn't one of those weekends.

I'm not really unhappy now that he is meeting my emotional needs better. The only thing is I would like for us to have fun. He said he thought that the 15 hours was unreasonable. He thought we already did POJA but now understands it was because I wasn't always honest about how I felt about something. I've shared my fears about his retirement plans and he has been adjusting his ideas. He has also asked me about several things to see if I really feel the way he thought I did.

We have been making love a lot more often and with more variety.

He just doesn't think doing fun things every week is appropriate when there is so much that needs to be done around here and he only has a few more years with the kids. He is freaking out about our oldest being gone in 6 months. He has already planned a special trip for the two of them and has a special trip to a Civil War event with middle one. Family is all to him...

My pastor doesn't think 15 hours is reasonable. My daughter didn't understand why I wasn't happy about missing a date. "MOM, you have been going out on dates A LOT!!!" You see before marriage builders we went out maybe once a quarter, so the 4 times we've gone out in the last 8 weeks is a lot to my husband and my kids. I feel like the unreasonable one...

I just sent the Harleys my phone number if they want to talk with me.

His schedule is this: clinic on Mondays 8-5. 4 or 5 surgeries on Tuesday. 4 or 5 suregeries on Wednesday. If he is on call on the weekend, then he has clinic 8-12 on Thursday and takes the afternoon off. ( That is once a month) Otherwise he has clinic from 8-5 on thursday and has Friday off.

He has to be on call once each during a week day with the exception of the week where he is on call on the weekend.

What the exact hours he works are not that important.

Are you happy with the way things are?

If yes, the problem is solved. If no, then it doesn't matter if your pastor, if your daughter, feel that you should be happy with whatever hours you get. What matters is, are you happy? Are you in love?

And Dr. Harley would not recommend he neglect time with your children. I believe he recommends priority of 15 hours with your spouse, UA time, and 15 hours family time.

[quote=tiredwife45] and has Friday off.
[quote=tiredwife45]

Fridays off! That is a huge one. What are your plans for this Friday?

You need to also tell him what effect this is having on you. That will help him to see why his job is a marriage issue.