Excuse me? My siblings and I are Adult Children of an Alcoholic and we aren't liars! Where are you basing your information off of?

I have a book entitled "Adult Children of Alcoholics" and it shows the different ways people with that background respond. Some are super responsible (me), some are irresponsible...not everyone responds the same way.

Yes I've read that book.
Most children lie to cover up and make excuses for the alcoholic parent.

A opening of adult children AlAnon lists common traits and lying is one of them.

Can you please visit My Wife Left Me For Another Man thread by Ryan and see if you may be able to share how you used plan a to turn your marriage around?

Oh, sheesh. So because I am an adult child of an alcoholic, I'm now a liar. Thanks for letting me know. Yes, I will agree that children of alcoholics will lie to minimize their parents' dysfunctional relationship with alcohol, but I'll stop there.

This is not a personality disorder. This is a DECISION. His wife has decided, for whatever reason, that honesty does not serve her. Q, please don't support your wife in her dishonesty. You should also be very aware of her actions. She has clearly shown you that she will lie when the truth would serve.

This may be worth emailin the radio show for guidance

I don't think Dr. H would support dishonesty in any form, for any reason, but you are always welcome to email him with questions like this.

No I meant to ask him if this is a personality disorder.
He basically told me he didn't think my wife would change due to her personality disorder.
This mans wife may have a disorder too

I think you are personalizing this, HDW. Be careful with that. Not every lying wayward has a personality disorder; they have just learned at some point to try to manipulate people. They'll lie if they need to. It's selfishness, more than anything. They will only learn that their lies (and I won't call them "fibs" - they're LIES) won't serve them when they have to deal with the consequences of their lies.

There comes a time when someone just has to quit what they are doing. That time usually comes when the liar has to deal with the consequences of their lies.

Q says his wife claims to be a 'professional photographer'. That will be easily uncovered the minute someone asks to see her credentials. In the meantime, Q should not support his wife's lies.

If he needs to email Dr. H about this, I am totally supportive.

Why does she lie then?
Wouldn't she be embarrassed if someone asked for her credentials?
What is the point in lying?

The DSM lists an infinite number of disorders. I'll bet if we all read the book we'll all have "something wrong with us that requires special handling".

Also understand that the DSM book changes with politics, seasons, funding, etc.

Do you agree my wife had a disorder?
I've wondered if she could change.
Dr Harley did say recently in the show That Personality disorders can't be fixed

I can't answer that because I am not 1. a professional or 2. acquainted with your wife. However:

I never believed your wife had a disorder because I don't believe in most of them. They are generally used to excuse poor behavior and are dictated by a profession that is a practice, at best. Dr. H has more details about your sitch, of course, and there was obviously something you said to him that indicated a mental issue, or he wouldn't have been so quick to assess your wife. It was obviously a no-brainer for him.

There are some - SOME legitimate disorders that create havoc in daily lives. Those usually show up BEFORE an affair. Not after. I don't know of any disorders that are recognized by the DSM as being caused by an affair. Only you can quantify the disruption of your wife's disorder prior to her affair.

Here's a good show about liars.

Radio clip on liars

I never did, truth was always important to me. I tried to get outside help but back in that day, society looked the other way.

I just looked at that adult children book. She lists the same traits AlAnon does and one of the 13 says :Adult children lie when it is just as easy to tell the truth.

I listened to the clip on lying, and then think about what NG wrote.
Where does your wife fall into on that list?
Does she lie about everything?

Hi folks,

Long overdue for an update. I'll make several posts over the next few days. Today's will just be a personal update.

I stuck with MB from 9/9 until 11/31. I consider it one of the best personal decisions I ever made. Every dollar spent on MBB coaching was worth it, too: I feel like I'm simply no longer in the habit of Love Busters towards anyone at all.

My WW, however, is another story. She either can't change, or isn't interested in changing. She does at least acknowledge this. She said she could not cope with living with me any longer because being around me makes her "feel bad". I discussed this with Steve Harley and he agreed we should get separated on 12/1 and I should go into Plan B.

Our last few weeks together were very pleasant: (safe) SF for both of us and lots of time spent together. I got her some nice gifts, like a black dress to go out on a date with and a Black Friday vacuum cleaner special. (She made some financial decisions that put me way, way ahead in exchange for us being separated a month sooner than originally planned.) As each day passed, I could feel her becoming slightly warmer towards me. Sadly, as each day passed, I felt less and less for her. After reading Love Busters, I understand why, but the feelings are no less real. By the last day we were together, I still felt happy when I was around her, but I felt just as happy not being around her and doing something with one of my friends, or by myself. I no longer felt the anticipation of seeing her again.

Divorce will be final on 1/1/13. At that point, I anticipate Plan B will continue for however long as it needs to. Eventually I suppose I'll view my XW just like any other woman I meet, with the notable exception that I'll happen to know she's a woman who cheated on her husband multiple times, has a lying problem, and at age 27 feels the need to spend her free time singing at open mic night in sketchy bars.

Since she couldn't be with OM, she decided to foster a friendship with OM's mother and his aunt (second cousin? who knows, that family tree looks like spaghetti thanks to all the divorces and remarriages in it). I can't control my wife's relationships with other women, but I feel her choices to foster these friendships shows extremely poor decisionmaking on her part.

We spent 11/30 together until midnight, and then I walked to the home where I now live. She was back with OM and his family in a few hours.

I wish none of them ill. I don't feel any regrets about how I spent the last few months, but I simply don't feel anything for my wife anymore, and I don't even care that she's with someone else now.

Sticking with Plan B from now until who knows. Steve Harley advised not even bothering with a Plan B letter, since we don't have anything like kids that we need to deal with: just keep communication brief and short, and choose not to be there for her.

Being single, free, with no debt, living close to my family, having a small business with partners I trust, and going to a church I love, seems really exciting. I feel a huge relief of stress no longer having to worry about providing for someone else's financial needs.

WW chose to keep $18,000 of debt in her own name instead of sticking with me until 12/31, during which time it would have been paid off. I don't understand this decision, but it was hers to make. The divorce settlement is final and that debt is out of scope (I had/have no responsibility to pay it).

I feel like I got out of jail for free.

I'll join the debate about lying at a later point--I have a lot of input to add.

I should add that I fully expect a few months of solid Plan B to result in my then-XW to be interesting in rekindling our romance, as:

1. It already happened this way in 2008

2. Life at a 40-hour-a-week job (which my WW has never held), in a cheap apartment, with an old car, and $18,000 of debt, is probably not as pleasant as my WW imagined it

3. The relationship with OM is strained and will probably end

4. The last few weeks between us were really good. My WW said a few times that she'll miss enjoying the "finer things" with me, etc. and that she just doesn't even understand why or how I could be so loving and kind to her.

I plan to stick to Plan B and not exit it unless MB coaching + my therapist advise me to do so. Currently both of them think being single and in Plan B is an excellent life for me.

I'm a real sucker for needy women with emotional problems/personality disorders and would like to get out of that pattern.

Did Steve offer any advice on dealing with a spouse with emotional disorders?

Have you read Buyers Renters Freeloaders?