I wanted to comment on this. Dr. Harley has said that there is still a LOT of hope for a marriage where the husband buys in and the wife does not. If you buy in and follow the program, if you are extremely consistent and effective with your love bank deposits and you eliminate the withdrawals, you are very likely to see her feelings change and then her beliefs change to match.

That is my hope. I thought I was there before but evidentally I was falling short of the mark.
Interestingly the Dr is starting with our ENs. I know it�s important to get them out there but I�m thinking there are some LBs that I need to eliminate and doing that is what is going to be important for my wife to experience.
Tonight I have to communicate how I want my needs met and she�s heard these all before � time and time again ... I don�t think she�s going to be all that intrigued hearing me lay out exactly what and when and how often I want and need something. We are getting along quite well I�d almost rather I start with something that shows her some benefit. Hopefully there are some ENs she needs immediately so I can show her that benefit.

My guess is that he's starting with ENs because he's decided you are the one who's a bigger danger to the marriage right now if your needs go unmet.

Of course. Not sure why I didn't think about that. It has been an OK couple of weeks so I feel more invested in the R. I do know I'm still leary and seem quick to jump back to many of those same withdrawal feelings when I see/feel/hear something that triggers them.

I hope she's ready to complete our to-do(s) for tonight. It's our last night to get that done before we meet with Dr. Chalmer again. I believe she was still working on them this weekend.

Every day I come here and SMILE.

I hope to join you in that fun some day.

ME TOO!

Story of my life. It turns out I had a LOT of blind spots on stuff I was missing and doing.


As the Love Busters decrease, the rest of the program becomes a lot more effective, but you usually won't hear cheers just for fixing the Love Busters alone. Steve Harley put it to me this way: noone goes around bragging they don't abuse their wife.

Listening to the radio show every day?

Hello Markos,

I listen to the show on average about 3 or 4 times a week. I missed the last few as things have been hectic. Currently I've been doing about 45 minutes of reading each day in the Harley books. I�m into the LB book now.

Update on my prior questions to you: After speaking to Dr J. it was decided that we would continue forward with our plan and hope that my wife is one of the 9 out of 10 where SF issues disappear. If she's not we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Sometimes the easiest things are beyond my thinking ...

We shared our ENs Monday night. It was interesting how few things she asked for for each one of her ENs. Affection: Text me once a day to ask how she's doing. That�s it and that�s what I had already been doing in the past say a year or more ago and also what I started doing again about a week and a half ago. So her statement was an I Love It When statement not an I Would Love It If statement. My wife says she�s just not that needy. Dr J. said she�s going to help her add more to her list. I can and want to do more.

This tells me it is the LoveBusters that I�m unaware of that is draining her romantic love for me. She�s going to give me 3 annoying habits this week so I can thoughtfully respond. I�m to do the same as my wife said she�d like 3 of hers as well. I can�t wait to get her honesty and openness.

Great! Keep this up!! I try to listen every day. I think for husbands trying to turn a marriage around, we usually need a lot of constant help like this, and the radio show is just perfect. Even when the show doesn't seem to pertain directly to our own situation, there is still always some helpful information that will shed light on some point, or reinforce what we've heard.


Hey, that definitely sounds like a good plan to me! Really it is amazing to me how the sexual issues in our marriage pertain so directly to the relationship issues. We've seen more ups and downs than we should have (mostly due to my own love busters) and that's given me a chance to see demonstrated repeatedly that in our marriage, there is literally no sense trying to do anything about sexual issues until the answer to "Is my wife in love with me?" is a resounding "YES," and when that becomes true, there usually are no sexual issues.


From this I think we can say we are seeing the results of your wife being in withdrawal for a long time. She's not feeling a lot of needs, because in withdrawal a person doesn't want to meet needs and doesn't want their own needs met either.

BUT, during a wife's withdrawal, if the husband does not engage in love busters, and persistently, consistently, patiently makes deposits, even if they are small, they eventually add up. And people do not stay in withdrawal perpetually: they feel lonely, they poke their heads out and briefly become willing to have their needs met, and that becomes an opportunity to make a big deposit, and if there are no love busters, the next thing you know, she is in conflict and willing to have her needs met (but not willing to meet yours, and possibly not willing to refrain from love busters), and then if you hold steady, don't love bust, and accelerate the love bank deposits, the next thing you know, she is in intimacy.

When she moves more fully out of withdrawal, she may be better able to identify her emotional needs. Until then, take every opportunity Dr. Chalmers can make for you, make every deposit you can, and focus especially on conversation. Read and re-read Dr. Harley's friends and enemies of good conversation.

(This is the original, but it's embedded in a long post about a bunch of other stuff. I include it only because I tend to be a historian:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1659425#Post1659425)

EL was relating something he had been told by Steve Harley in a phone coaching session.


Original:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=164877&Number=2556440#Post2556440

It has been awhile since I thought about and read again the Rocks in the River analogy.

I am sure I am very close to the surface. She told me last night she was very happy and was so happy we were communicating again.

I'm still waiting for the first of my 3 AHs she wants to communicate. We're scheduling time tonight.

Question for anyone:

I have to communicate an annoying habit to my wife tonight. But I'm unsure which to choose from.

My wife has a mild case of OCD where it creates habits that can be annoying. For instance, she overwashes her hands. So much so that they are usually dried and cracked especially in the dry winter months. (taking fish oils help). I'm not going to list that as an AH though ... I can live with it.

She also does this thing with light switches on off on off and she does it with some vigor. She broke one some years ago.

What I would really like to see her change is her eating habits and I'm not sure how much of it is just poor choices and how much is OCD. She drinks a lot of diet soda. As many as 5 or 6 a day that I know of ... she keeps a case of it at work so it could be more ... I'm not sure. Also, she doesn't eat healthy. No breakfast unless you count soda, cookies and Halloween pumpkins (candy corn stuff).

If I provide her with 1 AH do I break it up for her so she isn't overwhelmed or do I simply say I want you to eat better and that would mean cut down on the soda, treats and candies. I would encourage her to try to eat a good breakfast each day.

She is going to be upset that I'm going to "force" her to stop drinking so much soda. It's a crutch for her. We can't get in the car and go somewhere until she has at least 2 cans with her.

Thoughts?

An annoying habit is something that bothers YOU. Be careful that you do not let it become about lecturing or changing her which would be disrespectful.

So what is it about her eating and drinking habits that impacts you? Does she leave the empty cans in the car? Is she too fat? Drill down until you get to the right place.

Once you are at the root of the issue that is troubling you, you will need to POJA it with her. Remember, for this you just state the issue and then together find a solution. Do not make the mistake of starting with a possible solution, wrong approach.

It's unattractive to me to watch her consume so much that is bad for her. It becomes even more annoying later when she states how she doesn't feel well or that's she's fat and hates her shape.

I've watched her sister drink so much diet pop that she has about half of her teeth left. And her sister is an attractive girl. Why would anyone do that to themselves? I fear what it is doing to my wife.

Another part that bothers me is that she denies it later. I can't count the number of times I'd be preparing for bed thinking "tonight I'll ask if we can be intimate" and she'll walk in saying she doesn't feel well. Imagine the difficulty in trying not to educate her when I feel I see a problem. Imagine the difficulty I have in trying to avoid making assumptions. I don't want to disrespect her so I just clam up.

On those nights when she has a stomach ache or a headache I'll express my concern that there may be something seriously wrong and she'll say "I don't have that many". Last time it happened I asked if we could track it. She looked at me with a puzzled look. "It isn't that often. Why would you want to do that?".

And it is right there in that moment that I need the most help on how to communicate with my wife. We each have our own perspective. To me it is an AH. To her she�s fine.

I will do my best to simply state it is unattractive to me and I�d like us to work together to find a solution.

I would definitely tell her your feelings about this and include it on your list. This is something that affects your feelings towards her so she needs to know.

You need to tell her exactly what is unattractive. If it is that she is fat, come right out and say so. If it is that she is making herself ill and that this is negatively impacting you, say that. If you stick to your feelings you should be safe.

I wonder if there is an addiction that needs to be addressed?

Thanks ladies. I will stick to my feelings.

As far as addiction ... my wife is prone to addictions.

She wasn't able to quit smoking until she got a kidney stone while in her 2nd term with our first born. The 4 days in the hospital on morphine was enough to get her past the withdrawal.

Her father was an alcoholic. I had to approach my wife earlier this year because her drinking increased. She stopped when I told her I was concerned but once I really withdrew she started up again. She'll typically have at least 1 drink a day with most days being around 2 to 3.


I stated this when communicating our ENs. An Attractive Spouse: I would love it if we could create a lifestyle that would promote healthy choices in what we eat and drink. Creating a lifestyle that promotes health, for both of us, is important and attractive to me.

MrA, are you assuming that the pop makes her feel bad and makes her want to avoid sex rather than not being in love? I think you are blaming the wrong thing. Because if this is the case, then the real problem is that she avoids sex, not that she drinks pop. Diet pop isn't known for causing stomachaches. Sure, aspartame causes headaches in some people but it can't be assumed that is the issue.

It drives me crazy when my husband makes assumptions like that. It falls in the category of educating your spouse which is a lovebuster.

The way I would handle this is tell her that it is upsetting to you when she doesn't want intimacy. But you are both working on a plan to resolve that: falling in love. Falling in love will make her more willing to make love, NOT eliminating diet pop.

Do you blame the pop for her avoidance of SF?

What are her thoughts on this? Because you realize things like this have to be POJAed, right?