Thanks SunnyD!

Oh that was not an expression, she actually was upset that someone would wash their underwear with their handtowels. Hey, if I have red underwear AND red hand towels, they are getting washed together.

I think it is GREAT that you are sharing what you know with 20 somethings. At least the seed is there, vs them not even hearing the message, until they are sitting in our shoes.

As far as marriage, UA time is the key. It is one thing I fought against in the beginning (who can do 15-25 hours a week???) but now we love our UA time SO MUCH we will do anything to make it happen. Not just our lunch and dinner dates and RC time, but we take the opportunity for IC time whenever and wherever we can. We talk on the phone all the time and we never used to do that, neither of us are big phone talkers. The increased time, IC, RC, AF has made a huge difference. (Notice I left SF out there, lol. Ya we'll work it out someday, I hope).

Still slacking on our assignments tho, we really need more accountability.

How about signing up for the accountability program?

YES, we need to RQ. We are total slackers when we can get away with it.

Yeah, who WANTS to do homework??

I knew you literally meant washing the undies and towels together - but I still like it as an expression! LOL

Accountability is definitely a good thing! And it really works out best when someone else is holding you both accountable anyway.

When things are not going so well, we are motivated to dig out the books and do homework. But when things are going well and we have a lot of intimacy, then, we would rather do something FUN ya know?

We like to do homework in our room at night with the door locked, after kids are in bed. 1) we're tired. 2) the kids are never in bed, or so it often seems. 3) if I am going to spend time I would rather do something FUN ya know what I mean girls. So ya, backburner. We need a better system for it.

I clean the litterbox in the kitchen sink too. Oh ya I run a tight ship around here. (I do bleach it out afterwards, FYI)

Thread resurrected. I hate resurrecting, seems like it is always for the same reasons too. Someday I will let it collect dust.

UA time is going well, H is VERY adamant about our date lunches and date nights, nothing ever takes priority. I have often said that people who see us out for lunch or dinner probably think we are having an A, because we are always heavily engaged in convo and usually touching each other somewhere too lol. When I look around I see that is rare, even the spouses who go out for a dinner date seem to want to sit at the bar where they can see the tv...

We haven't been working the assignments as I had hoped, not by a longshot. We 'understand' EN's and have worked hard to avoid LB's, but that is where the effort ends.

We are not meeting each other's most important EN's. Not by a lognshot, I would say.

One of my reasons for this is because I really feel like some of H's EN's are CHANGING ME. Now I believe I have seen some info from Dr H himself about how meeting EN's does not mean you have to change who you are. If anyone can link it that would be great. That's how I feel.

For instance, H has specifically requested I put more effort into my attire. As I have discussed before, I do shower every day, do my hair, wear makeup. All is trendy and cute, I think. I just don't like to shop and don't wear trendy clothes and put together outfits. Don't like to dress like a yuppie girl. I am a jeans and tshirt/sweatshirt kinda girl, and my lifestyle requires it. I daily wear carhartt bibs caked with mud, clothes with holes, etc. (when i'm working) and yuppie girl clothes don't really fit under all that. But even with that attire, I DO look like a girl, with my cute hair and dark lipstick. In fact, others give me crap for always having lipstick on.

But H wants me to have cute clothes, be trendy, wear accessories, cute shoes...first of all that requires SHOPPING which I LOATHE. I would rather go to the dentist for a root canal than spend a day trying on clothes. Once there, I have no idea how to dress myself, I am like a fish out of water. I could not put together a cute and trendy outfit to save my life. Accessories? Does a headlamp and pocket knife count? If I had a personal shopper, and a fashion assistant, I could look pretty darn good as a yuppie girl. But, even then, I would feel like an actress playing a role as a yuppie girl, and not the kinda girl I really am.

So, by trying to meet this need, it makes me feel like a fish out of water. I can't seem to ever pull it off, and even when I do, I don't feel GOOD or COMFORTABLE. I just want my jeans and tshirts back.

Subsequently, one day I was at the kids sports practice and I noticed a yuppie boy with trendy clothes and hairstyle and thought, oh I am SO GLAD Mr Unwritten likes jeans and tshirts and doesn't dress like that. And wondered what he would do if I was attracted to that and wanted him to. And thought he would be a fish out of water, and could never pull it off, because its just not HIM. But somehow, I need to.

Also, I am starting to dislike myself. I have always been proud to be a tomboy who does tomboy things. I used to kinda LIKE that part of myself. But now I beat myself up for not being more 'girlie' and not being more concerned about purses and the latest shoe fashion. And I am starting to think that there is something wrong with me being a tomboy, and wishing I was something I'm not, rather than loving who I am.

That can't be a good thing.

I won't even start with the DS. It seems that no matter how many hours I put into it, I fail. I am just not domestic. I know I have gotten ransacked for saying I am just not 'good' at this DS stuff, but seriously, I am really not good at it. I can spend 4 hrs hardcore cleaning and end up somehow chasing my tail. 100 hrs would not get my house spotless and that is just because of ME.

Another thing to feel bad about. I'm not girly. I'm not domestic. I feel like I am not even what my H wants in a wife.

How do I meet these needs without changing who I am, feeling like a fish out of water, feeling bad about who I am, or getting resentful for all of the above.

I was, afterall, this girl who loved to play in dirt when he married me. T-shirt, jeans, messy house and all. I have never pretended to be some kinda yuppie girl.

Yes I watch too much Duck Dynasty.

So, I am not meeting his need for PA, probably. It still ruffles my feathers to say that because, I get attention everywhere I go. Unwanted male attention, which I am very aware of now and go out of my way to avoid. But I know it is there. And I know its because I am attractive, and to some people my lifestyle is attractive too, just not to my H.

SF is worse than it has ever been in the history of our M. How did THAT happen. Turns out once I stopped being the aggressor, he just stopped. Now nobody is the aggressor, nobody is initiating. I can't because it is 'demanding' and he doesn't because he just doesn't have the drive.

Frequency has drastically diminished, and the days of 'adventure' seem to be a thing of the past. That was mostly driven by me and my selfish demands, I guess.

Admiration is a big need for both of us. He def TRIES to admire me more. How do you get yourself to accept it, that's what I want to know. After a decade of treating me like he could have done much better, now he says admiring things and I have a VERY hard time believing it is not just 'checking off the list.' Seriously, I write on a piece of paper that I have a high need for admiration, and now presto, he admires me? Ya I don't think so. Same for him. After all the beating down I did after finding out about his A, he has a hard time accepting any admiration from me. So our comments fall on deaf ears.

Overall, I do not feel 'recovered.' I do feel like we have a better marriage than we've ever had, but that bar was set VERY VERY LOW.... And I don't really feel happy, in marriage anyway. I don't really even feel safe honestly, even though H has stuck to his boundaries and EP's.

Sometimes I think I just think too hard...

And sometimes I think that we may never be able to recover, or make each other happy, even though we want to.

I'm still looking for some clips about this for you. What about writing Dr. H?

The closest article I found is this, but I'm sure you've read it.
The Policy of Radical Honesty

"One of my reasons for this is because I really feel like some of H's EN's are CHANGING ME. Now I believe I have seen some info from Dr H himself about how meeting EN's does not mean you have to change who you are. If anyone can link it that would be great. That's how I feel."


Chapter 2 of Buyers Renters Freeloaders

"How do I meet these needs without changing who I am, feeling like a fish out of water, feeling bad about who I am, or getting resentful for all of the above."

There was a topic about this a while back.
They actually discussed hair styles on the Radio Show and said to POJA hair styles.
So you would POJA issues like how to dress etc.

Also here.
Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

Here's the clip JK is talking about.

Radio clip on length of hair

I want to address the issue of selecting clothes.
I recently started reading articles about how to dress as a man.
I threw away most of my clothes and have slowly been acquiring other types of clothes that define me more as a gentleman.

I never knew how to dress, other than jeans and a t shirt because I was never taught.
I had to learn how to dress.
Anyone can learn this.

But you really need to POJA this and negotiate because otherwise you will resent your husband if you change your clothing style as a sacrifice

My wife would look good in a potato sack, and she knew it too, and so she was always noticed, and always hit on too.

When she had her head screwed on, and was dedicated to being a Wife and Mom, it was clearly something I had to deal with, because she was valued as someone other than a sex object, and also above all those cheap fantasies of idiots.

Her behavior spoke beyond the way she looked, and unless she was going out where men would hit on her,(even though she was hit on even in Church), I would not encourage her to dress down, because it was an insult to who she was, and made her feel bad.

But when she was looking for trouble, and attention from other men, she could find it, and I knew it too, then I would tell her what I thought.

Same goes for me, as I was a striking good-looking guy, and knew how to dress, and pulled my share of compliments too, from the opposite sex, and hits too..Still do, and can get them, at the ripe old age of 55..lol

But my character really is above the meat market approach, and when flirted with by good looking females..it just makes me laugh..but I would respect a womens insecurity, if I was dating, and even more so, if I was married again.

I dressed well in my 20s, and always looked good in a suit. Clothes make the man unfortunatly in the vain world we live in, and looks are not a good measure of character, for either sex.

Being a mechanic for the last 20 years, or working in the trades, even though I still got hit on, didn't make me a sleaze..

Its how you act, not the package, or the trimmings, that dictates who you are, at least in my book

Does POJA cover SF and top EN? How can a couple with one partner's top EN is SF and the other's last #10 is SF? There is no POJA, these is sacrific and resentment. Whoever gives in, will have resentment?

BH,

Thanks for the link. It gives me a lot to think about.

You're welcome. The book is very, very good.

Sweet girl, POJA it!! Seriously. Get those options written down ON A PIECE OF PAPER.

You have to stop thinking like there are two options. Your choice and his choice. Nuh huh. There is a spectrum of about a million choices between the two.

I love to shop and could happily spend days putting outfits together and I really want to show up and dress you up! It made me giggle this idea that there are only two looks in the world - Unwritten's jeans look and yuppie girl's look! (Who on earth is she and what does she look like?!). I guess all the fashion editors can pack up their magazines and go home, then. There are no more looks to be found!

I've heard Dr H say POJA can be done even in situations where the husband wants long hair and the wife wants short. They have to go through pics of different hairstyles until they see some option they both like the best.

I'd suggest the same thing to you. If you hate shopping, order some pizza and open a bottle of wine and go through some catalogues together. You'll probably go for the jeansy, sportier look - and that is pretty fashionable - while it sounds like he'll go for more cutesy and prim. There is definitely a POJA solution between the two! Fashion is very flexible and is built on that kind of fusion. When Chanel made her name it was by teaming men's clothes with a string of pearls...

She did that so women could wear clothes they could LIVE in - and yes! Play in the dirt in! Plus she invented that red lipstick look you love. I think you could change your clothes somewhat without changing YOU at all. But you HAVE to be comfortable.

And seriously by the way your personality comes out in what you write I could see you in one of Chanel's other innovations - the LBD - without you feeling like an imposter at all! Just on occasion.

So your POJA options could be sitting down with catalogues or fashion mags and discussing ideas, getting a personal shopper, or maybe inviting a few female friends around for 'personal shopper' session - except they know you.

Order some clothes in, or get some samples of each others clothes to try out. Then experiment with some looks that you like and which you can try out with your husband later

As for DS, get a housekeeper!

Its very unusual for two people in a relationship to both have a high SF need. And it would probably be a bad idea becaause when short on time they would skip the other needs, like affection, needed for a well rounded relationship.

Dr H says if you spend UA time meeting the four intimate emotional needs the sex drive problems disappear because the lower SF person needed the other things in order to feel desire.