Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 43 1 2 3 4 5 42 43
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,074
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,074
Yes, have them make a gift for mom, you do that for the kids.

Who cares about the car?

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Last night, at bedtime my youngest (consistently for the past few weeks) started crying and said she misses mommy.
She said it is all my fault because I made grandma leave and that mommy left because she was afraid I would call her a name.

I replied that mommy left because she wanted to be with OM.
He asked, "so she would leave her own child for him?"
And i answered yes. She left us for him.
I said it is not your fault or your brother or sister fault. You are all good children. And I love you and Jesus loves you and you can know that Jesus said He will never leave us.
I then told her about the prophet when the king sent an army to get him and the prophets servant was terrified as he saw this Army approaching while The prophet didnt seem worried at all. Then God opened the Servants eyes and he saw an army of Angels surrounding the two of them.
I told my daughter that His Angels are always with us even when we think we are alone.

She seemed more peaceful then and went to sleep.

I have listened to many Radio Shows in the past few weeks and it seems to be Dr Harley's philosophy to remain married if at all possible if it is in the best interest f the kids.
I think even if my ex wife would have ended the affair I would have been condemned to a life of unhappy marriage. Dr Harley mentioned a couple with a depressed wife that he was able to help keep married, although not happily married.
So It seems I may be happier divorced than even if she had ended the affair.


Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,094
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,094
I have listened to many Radio Shows in the past few weeks and it seems to be Dr Harley's philosophy to remain married if at all possible if it is in the best interest f the kids.
I think even if my ex wife would have ended the affair I would have been condemned to a life of unhappy marriage. Dr Harley mentioned a couple with a depressed wife that he was able to help keep married, although not happily married.

This was a puzzling call (today's broadcast, no?). And, sorry but the fellow didn't speak very good English. I got the impression that Dr. H would have preferred to have them get into the MB program but the depression issue was a real hinderance; and she was also involved with another man...

Ultimately, you, JK, have made the best decision for you and your kids and are doing well to make the best of a bad situation.

opt


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
Another EA Story
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
Well then I guess I did the right thing, staying married to my aldultrous drug abusing wife for the children sake..

It is true that they are doing alright, and have adjusted after her death..although I am having a hard time getting past it, all things considered.

I made her the focus of my life, and the reason I existed even, to keep her alive..

Although that nightmare was something anyone would do without, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, having my children suffer would have been far worse IMO.

Another thing I know Dr H got right, you do it for the children

Last edited by ConstantProcess; 12/06/12 01:06 AM.

Me 56 Former BS
Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years.
4 children
DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4
Me former BS
DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr
DSs 26 and 23
Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 453
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 453
JK, I wouldn't worry about making presents for your ex...are the kids making them at school? Or do they have a santa's workshop at school where the kids can buy inexpensive gifts? If so, give them some money to buy for whoever they want.

I'm with you on the sex drive and since I'm still married, I'm careful to note any of those strong attractions and keep my EPs in place. I'm not totally sure how I'll handle it after the divorce is finalized because I'm committed to not having any more relationships that involve my kids.


Me, BS: 35
WxH: 36 "HAM" Hearts a mess
6yo DS (with WxH), 9 and 12yo DDs from first marriage
Discovered DH's affair in June, 2011
"I'm not having an affair, you're crazy." major gaslighting
Served with divorce papers on 2/3/12
Divorce final 7/29/2013
Living day by day, counting my blessings, loving my children
Personal Recovery well underway!
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Originally Posted by AskMe
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I look at the sins Paul describes and I see myself in all of them.
Our hearts truly are desperately wicked and only by the grace of God are we saved.

AskMe, what is your opinion of divorce (based on Scripture)?
If a man divorces his wife because she commits sexual adultery is divorce justified?
Can the man remarry?
When you get a chance can you read this commentary and let me know your thoughts?
I am recently divorced and would appreciate your views.

http://www.familyradio.com/graphical/literature/joined/joined_contents.html


Let's see if I can make this into a devotion about marriage and divorce.

Genesis 2:22-24
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman, ' for she was taken out of man." For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

We know from the point of God that He intended for a man and woman to unite together. They were to be an independent unit away from the homes of their parents. They were to create a family and care for that family.

Matthew 19:4-6
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

Jesus reiterated this message that man and woman would join together as one couple, as one body and as one of thoughts. Jesus tells us this is a covenant under God made between man and woman and they should not to break this covenant.

Marriage was not to be taken lightly and neither was divorce. Jesus said that God didn't intend for divorce, but allowed it under Mosaic law. The intent was marry, stay married and stay faithful to one another.

Matthew 18:7-9
�Then why did Moses say in the law that a man could give his wife a written notice of divorce and send her away?� they asked. Jesus replied, �Moses permitted divorce only as a concession to your hard hearts, but it was not what God had originally intended. And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery�unless his wife has been unfaithful.

So again we see Jesus reaffirming the covenant of marriage. Hard hearts is why Moses mediated with God for divorce. Divorce was not in God's plan, neither were multiple marriages or multiple spouses. I know there are a few others in The Bible, but Job always comes to mind as the one faithful person who had one spouse and remained faithful to her even through all the pain and suffering he endured.

Hebrews 13:4-7
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." So we say with confidence, "The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?" Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

God intended marriage and sex to go together. Couples should be able to enjoy each other freely without sin. It bothers me when people try to make sex something dirty because it should be a lovely experience shared between two people who mutually agree on what they are doing. The reason I believe some families try to make it dirty is to prevent promiscuous behavior in their children, which is wrong. Honesty about subjects at a level appropriate for a child's age is always the best answer.

1 Corinthians 7:1-16
Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Again we see that sex within marriage is a good thing. For those who have a strong desire for sex that need can be fulfilled within marriage. I want to emphasize the part about mutual consent. Sex should be treated respectfully between each other, never making the other person an object to be used. We also find there are some who can be happy as a single person. There is nothing wrong with being single and is an honorable thing if one remains so. We also see the problems unlike beliefs can create between husband and wife and for their children. It is why it is so important a Christian person desires a Christian spouse. It's not that two people cannot be married and have different beliefs, but there will be issues that have to be resolved. The verse also reminds us of the importance of marriage to one another and that through one's faith in Christ an unbelieving spouse may also find Christ.

There was a question about remarrying when divorce occurs. I knew a couple that divorced over matters related to sex. They had two children and this is where I think a verse from Malachi is important. Malachi 2:16 from the NLT translation says, "For I hate divorce!" says the LORD, the God of Israel. "To divorce your wife is to overwhelm her with cruelty," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. "So guard your heart; do not be unfaithful to your wife." The wife was left with the children and the children also suffered because the father was not always there. Well several years passed and neither remarried. The wife became ill and needed help with the children. The husband who had been working on his issues moved back in to help with their kids. The husband slept separately from the wife for over a year, helping, caring and providing. The wife saw the change in her husband and decided she wanted to reconcile. They worked together through counseling and found the hope they looked for. They are happily remarried at this time. Praise God.

So I think as long as there is a possibility for reconciliation a Christian should hold out to see if remarrying might be a possibility. But once the other spouse has remarried that hope is gone and I see no issue with remarrying.

There are other reasons for divorce such as safety of the family. My mother divorced my father because he was an abusive alcoholic. His ways never changed. Had she remained married to him I believe the results could have been terrible. He tried to shoot her, tried to run her over with a car, tried to stab her, but fortunately he was always too drunk to succeed. For the safety of the family there are times when divorce is necessary. My father remained an alcoholic the rest of his life. I only saw him for 5 minutes when I was 10 years old and he was drunk and my mom told him to leave and that was the last time I saw him until I attended his funeral. My mom's mistake was in marrying someone who was not a Christian and who she did not know much about.

One final word on all of this. Divorce impacts live, especially if children are evolved. Divorce should never be taken lightly and marriage should be done with a thought of commitment. However,we should remember there is no sin that cannot be forgiven by God except for the rejection of the Holy Spirit, which means a person rejects God's salvation through Christ. So no matter what has taken place there is always forgiveness from God. God would like us all to live perfect and holy lives, but He knows we can't do it. So God gave us Jesus so that when we fail there is mercy and grace.

I'm sure others may want to comment and I always welcome another's opinion.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Copy of email sent to visitation supervisor:

When I picked up my kids today they immediately asked me if mommy can spend Christmas with us.�
DS and DD both said that Ex ww told them to have me text her and it was my decision.�

I assume that this is a common issue in visitation and divorce/ custody issues.�

It is frustrating for me because I become portrayed as the bad daddy that won't let mommy come home for Christmas.�

Do you have any ideas on how we can ensure that my children are not used as messengers?

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,983
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,983
More than likely the supervisor will talk with xww about inappropriate comments to the children, (however the supervisor should have already nipped this in the bud during the supervised visitation)......not that her behavior will change or that she will listen. Do you get a transcript of thw supervised visitation?



"Get busy living, or get busy dying"...... The Shawshank Redemption.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
No.
The supervisor looks in the room every 30 minutes

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,983
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,983
Ummmmmm.......that sounds more like limited supervised visitation......is that what your state considered supervised visitation? What about having the supervised viaitation done at a different location or at least have someone in the room to watch for appropriate/inappropriate comments.


"Get busy living, or get busy dying"...... The Shawshank Redemption.
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
Originally Posted by Logans_Run
Ummmmmm.......that sounds more like limited supervised visitation......is that what your state considered supervised visitation? What about having the supervised viaitation done at a different location or at least have someone in the room to watch for appropriate/inappropriate comments.

ITA..

Your kids minds should not be bent by WW without WW being corrected..

This should be addressed somehow Jedi..

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
This is what the court ordered.
The visitation is supervised by the County Visitation Center, part of the Court.
I have no control over the level of supervision The Court ordered.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
This is what the visitation levels are.
My ex wife is level 3:


During Supervised Visitation, a monitor observes the interactions between the child and both parents and documents those interactions.��
�
The Visitation Center has 3 levels of monitoring:��
�
���� Level 1 - a monitor is in the visit room at all times observing and documenting the interactions between the child(ren) and visiting party;�
�
���� Level 2 - a monitor observes the interactions every ten minutes and documents what they observe;�
�
���� Level 3 - a monitor observes the interactions every thirty minutes and documents what they observe.��
�
All conversation and behavior is monitored at all times no matter what the level of the visit.�
�

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
OK so they must have a recorder running if it as level 3

So your lawyer and/or childrens counselor or both, should address the court about this. Maybe bring it to level 1.

Daddy should not be made out to be the bad guy..That is manipulation.

If it is possible to prove in court that she does this..I see no problem in implementing level 1 visitation. You will need testimony and proof though.

Possibly the childrens testimony via their counselor will do, if they are so empowered.

Maybe affidavits..

Find out what your state requires by law for the children from your Lawyer

That sucks I know


Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
Then maybe she will stop it and receive some help in dealing with little childrens hearts

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
I think she says it to frustrate me.
She specifically told the kids to have me text her.
Yet she knows That she was blocked from texting me and that I only communicate through a designated email address.

In the meantime I have been reading Buyers Renters Freeloaders and learned that we were both renters. I may have been a buyer. I would not leave the marriage due to religious reasons.

But she did leave at least 2 other times before her affair. And came back.
During the affair she downgraded to freeloader.

It's really a good book to read.

Is there a reason why she would be trying to communicate this through the kids?
Is she upset about limited contact?

My gut feeling is That she will be knocking on the door after her boyfriend beats her up. As I read the book, I wonder if she is trying to go back into a renter relationship with me and trying to use the kids for that.

Dr Harley explains that freeloaders have a dismal relationship future in life. And renters are full of strife but they get some needs met.
Her taker must remember the plan a where I kissed her cheating [censored] and desire that as her freeloader affair partner refuses to meet her needs.


Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I think she says it to frustrate me.
She specifically told the kids to have me text her.
Yet she knows That she was blocked from texting me and that I only communicate through a designated email address.

In the meantime I have been reading Buyers Renters Freeloaders and learned that we were both renters. I may have been a buyer. I would not leave the marriage due to religious reasons.

But she did leave at least 2 other times before her affair. And came back.
During the affair she downgraded to freeloader.

It's really a good book to read.

Is there a reason why she would be trying to communicate this through the kids?
Is she upset about limited contact?

My gut feeling is That she will be knocking on the door after her boyfriend beats her up. As I read the book, I wonder if she is trying to go back into a renter relationship with me and trying to use the kids for that.

Dr Harley explains that freeloaders have a dismal relationship future in life. And renters are full of strife but they get some needs met.
Her taker must remember the plan a where I kissed her cheating [censored] and desire that as her freeloader affair partner refuses to meet her needs.

Loaded post, will answer tommorow, if nobody else does first

Had a long post and I lost it somehow Sir.

Mainly though it was saying how it sounds like she is still trying to cake-eat, and drink from the never-ending well of the Jedi

It also sounds like she has a drug problem..because..if her boyfriend slaps her around...Sorry if I am off with that, just been my experience, with the wimps of this world..

A Lot of speculation sorry. Talk to you tommorow


Me 56 Former BS
Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years.
4 children
DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4
Me former BS
DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr
DSs 26 and 23
Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
I suspect possible drug use.
The boyfriend has a serious criminal history involving drugs.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Copy of email sent to visitation supervisor:

When I picked up my kids today they immediately asked me if mommy can spend Christmas with us.�
DS and DD both said that Ex ww told them to have me text her and it was my decision.�

I assume that this is a common issue in visitation and divorce/ custody issues.�

It is frustrating for me because I become portrayed as the bad daddy that won't let mommy come home for Christmas.�

Do you have any ideas on how we can ensure that my children are not used as messengers?

Response received:


We will speak with EX WW concerning conversation such as this.� If she did say this, it is inappropriate.� It does happen especially during this time of the year.� I appreciate the manner in which you informed us.

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 251
Q
Member
Offline
Member
Q
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 251
Jedi,

Thanks for posting in my thread. I just finished reading your thread and I'm really impressed with how you are handling all of this. Keep up the good work.


BH (me), age 30. Plan D final 1/1/13
Page 3 of 43 1 2 3 4 5 42 43

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 584 guests, and 71 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Bibbyryan860, Ian T, SadNewYorker, Jay Handlooms, GrenHeil
71,838 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5