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Thank you BH. We discussed, but I don't have enthusiasm from her yet.

I struggled this weekend with my mind going to dark thoughts. It revolves around SF and my desire to pleasure her. How long will these dark thoughts last?

Its really strange and honest also that you mention your desire to please her in SF as a "dark thought". I get it, and the mystery that is wrapped around SF, but I personally do not believe it is all so dark and mysterious. I do understand that is how she might want it to be, in her own mind even, and how it may seem to be what you need to perform to keep her.....

TTS, where did the days go when she chased you and was hot to please you? Remember those?

Remember the romance? This program is designed to return the romance to your marriage, but is not going to happen, without taking the bull by the horns.

You are in charge, and she needs to know it, and no other Bulls allowed

Theres nothing dark about SF and pleasuring one's wife. The nature of what she did is plain and simple...sex. If she was playing Canasta with this dude, who'd give a darn? It was that she was doing the horizontal mambo with someone not you. AND, factor in that she was giving you less than what you wanted in that dept, THAT is the dark place.

Again, we've gone over this a few times. Either she's with you (naked and otherwise) or she is not.

I made it top priority that she become something different in the sack. Same ole wouldnt do.

Again, wanting one's wife intimately is in no way a dark thought. In fact, you and I both wanted our wives so much that when we found out they were giving it up elsewhere it made a bad situation worse. I guess there are plenty of cheating wives who did so because of the lack of desire and attention from their husbands. Not in my case.

The thoughts aren't dark I guess, they are just consuming. I dwell on them, can't shake them.

We talked about the show, the books and the plan. She seems to think its fake, and won't result in us being happy. I try not to push, that's a LB for her and she will retreat. I'm simply doing my best to be positive, tell her my feelings and desires and remind her I'm reading and listening.

One more issue. Since DDay, she has gained weight. She blames it on being depressed. I struggle knowing that as the EA was working its way to a PA, she was working out, eating healthy and doing all she could do to look good. As soon as I discovered the PA, she stopped. She went into a shell, her depression and Bi-Polar became an issue and weight gain started. Is this common amongst Waywards?

I've emailed the radio show and received a call. I hope to be on next week.

During a conversation, she tells me she has no desire towards me. She thinks she has true feelings for OM, it's been 18 months, and that she can't forgive herself. She told me the pain she feels is the greatest pain she has ever felt, and that I wouldn't understand.
Her text...."You have no idea what it feels like to have true feelings for another person who is not your spouse even when you KNOW it is wrong and shouldn't EVER have taken place. You will never kno what it's like to have hurt the person you promised your life to. You will not know those pains that I personally do not know how to forgive myself for."

Is this foggy gibberish? It sounds like it to me.

I will be on the radio soon, hope Dr Harley can give me some direction.

She has also requested to make contact with her female accomplice. I said NO way.... And added, that until she started worrying about my feelings, this was not negotiatible.

Foggy gibberish indeed!

Her fog is still thick. She says lots of foggy gibberish, I believe she is in withdrawal. I read on someones thread (can't find it now) that WW can last in withdrawal for a long period of time. It said that a BH could stay in Plan A for 2 years before the fog of an affair lifted on a WW.

Is this accurate? I'm still in Plan A, sent flowers to her office last week. She tells me she loves me and wants to stay married forever.

Where i run into trouble internally is SF. She says she is happy not have SF. Says she has no desire. She says she hasn't wanted to have SF since first child, 16 years. We've talked about aversion. We've read the articles. I struggle between asking too much or not asking at all. Dr. Harley said on his radio show last week, that spouses shouldn't sacrifice for each other. If she doesn't want to have SF, then I need to make her more comfortable. She doesn't need to have sex if she doesn't want to.

Any thoughts?

...that spouses shouldn't sacrifice for each other.

Well, if SF is a legitimate top-five EN for you (and if you're a male with a pulse, it likely is), then your foregoing SF entirely to accommodate her is no less (probably more) a sacrifice than her at least occasionally accommodating you.

Look, pathologies and disabilities aside, a mutually appropriate SF component is rightly part of every marriage.

I've gotten myself in trouble on this site before, but the point is that there are no doubt certain ENs that will supply her that might not be your idea of a fun time. (Think changing the brakes in her car, to keep her safe.) But you do it as a service to her and as part of you husbandly duties. Well, she has "wifely" expectations as well.

Yeah, I know it doesn't hold together 100% because you can pay some guy to change you wife's car's brakes, and her deciding to pay some chippy to attend to your issues is a felony in most states.

But you can't be forever sacrificing your needs just because she answers, "I don't wanna!"

I think that where you are not meeting her top five emotional needs.......THAT is what is making her not feel like SF.

What are her five top needs?

How can you meet them?

If you do, she will be inspired to meet yours (and will make love with you to bond with you).

This is probably the issue..In most cases, when the true emotional needs are discovered and met, sex is just like icing on the cake..

look into what is really the problem, or lack, and get her on board with that investigation.

You don't have to continue like this

Her top 5 as we have identified them.
1: Conversation... She says we talk almost too much
2: Family Commitment .. Family time is abundant
3: Domestic Support ... When I'm home, I'm a regular Susie homemaker
4: H/O .... I tell her the truth and call out little white lies by those around us.
5: Financial Support .... I make more now than we ever have.

for fun...

6: Admiration
7: Recreational Companionship
8: Physical Attractiveness
9: Affection
10: SF

When I ask her, what can i do or what else can i do? She has no answer. She says she doesn't desrve me, that she is not worthy of my efforts and that she has f'd up our life.

Back in the early days after D-Day... I asked her why she would have SF with him... they hadn't met F2F in years. She said she did it to make him love her more....She thinks she is still in love with him, she thinks will never get over that feeling. 18 months?? How long can fog last?

I've sent this to Dr. H. I hope to discuss on the radio soon.

She thinks she is still in love with him, she thinks will never get over that feeling. 18 months?? How long can fog last?

Well, less than two months ago, you caught her searching for him on the internet. What were the consequences for her for that betrayal? More pertinently, what will be the consequences when you discover her doing it the next time?

YES, she's still, in her mind, in "love" with him. You seem to be burdened with one of those WW "love camels", and yours just took a big drink on 15 October! She took that risk to get her fix, because she knew you would do nothing about it of a severity that it deserved. She has you in person, cleaning the house, earning the bread, and POSOM in her mind, where she won't let you in.

How long will you be content living that life? Whatever the answer, make it easy on yourself and expect no change, because she won't make one until the alternative of not doing so is worse.

I feel like I started over in October. You ask how long can I go on like this? I don't know. Early on someone described her as a "love camel"... She can go long streches... 14 yrs the first time.

Plan B involves one of us moving out. Everyone thinks we are working on us, and that it will take time. Parents are supportive and we take date nights. How would I explain that? "We are taking a break bc she won't have sex with me..."

As you can tell, I want to work. Do what I can to meet her EN. Isn't it disrespectful for her to know my EN and ignore them?

Has allways been that way since the beginning of time..

Isn't it disrespectful for her to know my EN and ignore them?

Well since life in its issues and problems resembles a game we are compelled to play, in which form do you want the answer?

CANDYLAND: Yes, it's disrespectful, and quite possibly she will see the hurtful effects of her actions and correct them.

CALL OF DUTY IX: She has been trained for 16(?) years that she can stonewall your desires and you will retreat before her defenses. You either figure a way over, under, around, or through them, or break off engagement at that target and begin a new campaign.

You do understand that you already know this, right? You wrote that WW went heels up for POSOM to get his affection. The problem is yours is already in her pocket, and she sees no chance of herself forfeiting it, so why should she "pay" for something she already possesses?

Damn, this sounds so heartless...but at its core, stripped of all froo-froo, that is your situation. WW wants nothing from you (that she currently lacks), with you at home being the ideal husband, and POSOM still in her mind, being the "fantasy lover".

Like I said, that apple cart is fine for her just as it sits. Progress will involve upsetting it.

You have not received just compensation for her affair.

You have not received complete transparency from her.

You have not been assured your safety. You have not been made whole for her actions in any way, shape, or form.

You are still walking on egg shells around major topics in your marriage and its not healthy.

She gave you an opportunity to lower the boom in the October Google-gate search for her boyfriend. You missed that boat.

Now, its holiday time and maybe not the greatest time to upset NG's apple cart. But I would.

Tex, if I felt or she even implied (I cannot believe that your wife even said such a thing) that any inkling of care, affection, or geez Louise, love existed a day after dday let alone 18 months after, Id be gone.

She has to be with you or not. That includes in the kitchen, the store, the movies, the car, and definitely in the bedroom. And since the recurring theme is lack of SF, the latter is clearly the most important place.

Recovery is wicked hard even with the most remorseful cheating spouse. See some of my posts and those of WPG and many others. A recovery with someone like your wife is impossible.

2-step,

I have never posted to you, but have read your thread and NOT to my amazement can say "I could've wrote this".

It was the post by NG that sparked me to write (because I received a very similar one from him as well)--What are you going to do about her searching and not getting on board? I told my wife after I caught her searching the first time that ANY further contact will throw us into d. Guess where I'm at today--divorced! So that tells you I wasn't going to put up with any more abuse from her.

When I found out they had text each other I confronted her and she lied--I showed her the proof and told her she knew the consequence for her actions. All she could say was "Why are you doing this?"

Well I have been in plan B for about 2 years-divorced for about a year and have my sanity back. She is now on with with OM??? because after the last contact with OM1 I exposed the sh#t out of him and it ended permanently!

You need to decide when enough is enough because it is apparent that she is not nor will be on board. Stay away if you do because she will go down a path that you wouldn't think she is capable of.

Life is too short.

Yep this is right on.. been there, and don't wear the T Shirt..

You are still in a battle sir, it never ends..Whos camp is she in?