[/quote]Heh, I know that feeling.

I agree. MB is one of the best programs I have seen too, which is why I keep coming back to the articles. I have taken from it and from other programs to customize it, but just need the guy to really get on board. Mostly, he has been resistant to my approach on this issue because I come at him frustrated and angry when I feel let down after he agrees to something and then backtracks. I'm working on that---->not getting so let down, and angry as a result. Empathy is important, and I'm always open to growing better in that direction too!


[/quote]

Also step back and look at your "program" have you cherry picked all the info that would benifit you and not him? Maybe that is why he is not "on board" with it.

For example, everyone can pull a few verses of the bible out and make a any point of view they want. You have to dig deeper not just a few verses for the true context.

I sent the email and asked the question and I hear what you're saying.

Don't think that's how he feels at all, but I could ask. It's possible.

Great, let us know what their answer is and when it will be on the show.

I'll let you know if they respond.

Hey there teetering. I see you have some great help. In regards to the snooping, I guess it is in how you look at it. If you feel that you can live happily and fully without knowing for SURE that your H hasn't been living a secretive life and having affair(s), then you have to make that call. What I have learned from being here for a while is that, these kinds of secrets will continue to be destructive. So, don't assume that just b/c you don't know anything, that you can "just don't go there" and try to recover, and that it will work beaufitully. It most likely won't b/c your H knows. The secrecy, guilt, etc... will keep on doing its damage. It drives a wedge. Some men come clean. Some won't EVER. If your H is the latter, well, those just lie and lie and lie, then just keep doing what they want to do anyway. So, in that case, it is imperative that you arm yourself with the correct knowledge so you can make informed decisions.

Maybe you can schedule a polygraph for him. This way, youi don't have to be secretive, you can be up front with him. Actually, you take one too. That way you can give him the information he needs to feel safe. There are so many threads on here where people have done that. If you are interested, everyone will help you come up with the questions. This might be a suitable alternative for now.

Keep working on it teetering. Have a great Thursday.

i am so, SO glad you have done this! let us know when you'll be on. i so hope this helps you get started in a direction to build a GREAT marriage.

Hi there again, this is excellent advice, something I would be willing to implement and participate in. I brought it up to him and we have both agreed to take one as soon as we can afford it. As always, thank you.

I appreciate that. I'll update there, and on the ENQ later on today.

Thanks! I feel a bit flattered that you said that. Actually i think thats the first time anyone has ever mentioned they were glad i chimed in. Much appreciated.

@ teetering ... great job getting your hubby to want to participate somewhat. Thats progress! Keep up the good work!

i can't believe *that!* you have many, many excellence posts!

i was afraid to mention it, because i didn't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, but it was niggling at me. better safe than sorry, right? (haha, i just realised this was amusing considering my propensity to not be RH at all times!)

/tj

teetering, i hope the poly helps set both your minds to rest. i am heartened that he thinks it is a good idea. it'll be worth the expense to put your minds at ease. let us know if you (and husband) want help with the Qs. usually the polygrapher will talk to you about what this issue is, and will go over several Qs, then only ask 3 pertinent ones. we can help you narrow them down to specifics that can cover your concerns but still be answered with a Yes or No.

you also want to ask your husband a number of questions a day or so prior to the test, so he can have a chance to be forthcoming prior to the exam, and also so you can revise questions if need be before he goes in. i'll let someone who has actually done a poly chime in here on procedure. since you're both doing it, this can go both ways.

btw, i think it's great that you're both going to do it! it shows your willingness to be RH with your H, to give him the peace of mind he obviously doesn't have, despite your openness.

as a side note: we use lastpass (a browser extension and online password manager) to store unique passwords for all of our sites. this is two-fold. one, it helps with internet security by having complicated passwords, individual to each site (it is not good to use the same one, YKWIM?). if you both, for instance, use facebook, you can store two or more separate passwords for one site as well. two, it also means that either one of us can login to any site at anytime from anywhere should we feel the need to do so. you might consider something similar if it would help make you (both) more comfortable.

Thanks now your inflating my ego and influencing me to post more. I am glad you think many of my posts are excellent, sometimes I wonder if i make a difference here or not.

@ teetering - Looking forward to hearing your update.

I hope so too! I was thinking and I told him today, I realize that if complete strangers on the internet could accuse me of deceit and lying because I'd prefer to not be spied on and such, then I suppose I get how he could too. The tape playing in his head is telling him that if someone does not want to be spied upon/polygraphed; then they must be guilty of a crime or hiding something. My tape says that the one doing the spying is obviously hiding at least the spying, and likely more.

Anyways, I always took his accusations personally, but coming here and being looked upon in the same way has helped me to see that his feelings are actually quite impersonal, and simply his thought process at work. [/i] He has not been accusing me of doing anything necessarily, he is simply correlating my defensiveness at his accusations to guilt just as I am more likely to correlate his spying to guilt. And I'd like to note that his views are past tense, as he said he quit spying on me years ago and had a "a ha moment", committing to never spying again once he realized that I wasn't cheating and that he was becoming addicted to just finding [i]anything. Nonetheless, eureka moment for me. So, I'm thrilled to clear myself. Much more thrilled than he seems to be now. He has said for quite awhile that he trust me fully, but I'd like to do this just to solidify his inkling. But his enthusiasm seems to be waning over the course of the day about the poly, as he's seen mine increase. Maybe he's just bored with it all. He still said he is happy to do it and to schedule it and get it done. Wish I had the money today! Not so oddly, he seems to be trying to "define" what it means to have had an EA. Yikes on him. He knows that I wouldn't be surprised whatever way this thing goes though, and I've told him such.

So to the ENQ. My top results and my assessments of their satisfaction level were: Intimate Conservation(-3), Honesty and Openness(-2),Family Commitment(+2), Admiration(-2), and Affection(-2).

Other scores: Sexual fulfillment(+1.5) up from what was a consistent(-1) for years. Recreational companionship(+2), Physical Attractiveness(+1.5), Financial Support(+1.5) and Domestic Support(+1.5).

We talked a bit about these things, not at all in depth, hopefully do that tonight. He still hasn't done his yet, but that's because we stayed up last night talking about other things.

Teetering.. That's great progress so far. Pardon my briefness as I am on my phone. You say your hubby is now trying to define an EA? Well if you go to the articles section you will find once called "what is an affair". Read that as it may help you with that answer.

Mng

Here.
What is an Affair?

Thanks both of you. I think I've got it. Basically, the effects of the relationship are more important than actually defining if it was or was not an "affair". Yes? So then, in taking a poly, how does one fairly come up with questions concerning what an affair is?

In this thread there are questions that others have used.
Polygraph Testing

your positive results show he is, in your current estimation, and good father and provider. however, the most important things is that your negative marks are all in the categories of romantic love. this is really good, because it's a clear indicator that you two need to work on building a romantic M, which is exactly what you're at MB for. building romantic Ms is what MB does (if there's been infidelity or not). getting those -s into +s will help build romantic love in both of you, and result in a more fulfilling M.

of course, you still need to work on EPs. however, if your H is one that likes a clear delineation, evidence, definition, whathaveyou, your questionnaire has marked that beautifully. has he completed his one on you yet? often, the WS will mark the BS + on everything, giving you no indication whatsoever on where you can do your part to build romantic love! but as you build RH, this will become clearer. also, you may be able to see for yourself, as you become more familiar with the BCs, when and how you can better meet the romantic love ENs.

it's important to remember that eliminating LBs, which is necessary, doesn't help you add deposits to the LB$, only keeps you from making withdrawals. it is equally important to be making those deposits in order to increase the LB$.

i was just going to hit submit, but want to add one more thing. when you do the EN questionnaires on how to meet ENs, it is vital that you are specific on what actions you need to feel that EN is fulfilled. all spouses, wayward or no, need to *know* how the other person feels fulfilled. we can't read each others minds, no matter how often we are told in books and movies that if someone loves us they automatically know what they should do/say, and what one person perceives as an act of affection may not be viewed the same by the other spouse. dr harley has an example in HNHN of a husband who brought his wife flowers every week to show his love & appreciation for his wife - clearly trying to make LB$ deps. however, wife was allergic to the flowers, and the more she got them, the more she felt angry & upset (after all, why didn't he *know* she didn't want the flowers??), resulting in the husband making LB$ withdrawals! RH a lot earlier would have helped. clear instructions save a lot of heartache!

for example, when it comes to affection, you may be tempted to say: "show me more affection." however, this isn't clear. more of what exactly? this will be personal to you. it may be a kiss in the morning before work. it may be holding hands when going to the shops. it may be hugs after dinner. you see where i'm going with this? be as specific as possible. "i need you to kiss me 4 times a day: before work, when arriving home, after dinner, and before we go to sleep." you may also wish to be even more specific as to what kind of kiss you want. a quick peck before work? a longer (be specific!) kiss? etc. i won't go into details on kisses, but you definitely should, if kissing is one of your affection needs!

Your assessment is right on target Letty, thank you. I consider him a great father and provider for the most part, but romance is a laughable subject for him and the lack of it is a cancer eating into my affections for him.

He completed his ENQ last night as his results were: Affection(-1),Financial Support(-2),Recreational Companionship(+2), Honesty and Openness(+2), Physical Attractiveness(+2), Domestic Support(0), Family Commitment(+2), Admiration(-3), Intimate Conversation(0), and Sexual Fulfillment(+2), not in any particular order of importance because he hasn't ranked them at this time.

From reading LB, I knew that his need for affection and admiration were high(maybe even higher in importance for him than for me?), but I've found it so interesting that he simultaneously seems to all out refuse to give romantic gestures. The resulting feeling for me is that I'm continuously courting(not all too well apparently) someone who claims to be entirely unromantic.

And I had quite a time last night attempting to get him to help me understand what he meant by wanting me to be more affectionate and admiring of him, so yes, a deficit in clear communication and understanding began to rear it's ugly head. In fact, he became frustrated with me that I just didn't "get" what he wanted of me. The more I pressed for specifics, the more frustrating it all became. Because yea, I buy him the sweet cards, and surprise him with his favorite candies, and give him kisses and hugs throughout the day, but he claims that these things feel contrived and like a ploy for me to get what I want. Maybe just a bit of truth in that, and I explained that I do have an expectation that he reciprocate, but that just doesn't seem to sit too well with him right now. So tonight I hope to get more information on what it means to him for me to fulfill those specific needs.

What I've been really focusing on today are my LB behaviors. I realize at this point that it doesn't take much for me to get angry with him, and today was no different. He has a tendency to make agreements with people(anyone really), and not follow through. When these agreements include me directly, or our children, and he ignores them as though he said nothing at all, I get discouraged and upset. I feel lied to, and then when I bring it up, he gets angry at me for getting on his case. Ugh! It turned into a argument twice today, although we made swift(er) than usual recoveries with affection and whatnot. Still, this is a big part of the reason why I rated him low on honesty and openness. I don't feel as though he intends to do much of what he says. Whether does or doesn't do something depends solely on how he feels seemingly, and not on any principle of doing what he said he would. So I feel like I hit a wall in that regard, not knowing what to expect from him, and knowing that bringing this to his attention may get him upset.