Who's IB? If you mean her�s she's not into you. We can't change that for you ... you have to. You have to make being with you more beneficial than with others. This will take some work, some serious long hard work. A great Plan A.

If you mean yours then change that immediately.

I want to believe you've done a really good Plan A but then I see little questionable comments like 'Keeping up with the Jones'' and I'm reluctant to believe you. I keep wondering with what tone are you making these comments. Your W has FS as a high EN. She loves a particular style of living � do you honestly believe she�s doing that just because she wants to put on a good face and be part of a crowd? Sounds like a DJ to me.

It doesn�t matter that you may or may not comment them directly to her. They�re in your head and they�re going to show themselves somewhere in your interactions with her and opinions of her.

UA time. That is supposed to be filled meeting your spouse�s ENs. What are they?

It appears she doesn�t want to spend money spending time with you. So find something to do together that she�d like that doesn�t require it. My W and I like to cruise the home improvement stores and dream about the stuff we hope to have in our homes someday. FREE! (Well free for now).

Be creative. If you have to start small just to get started then start small. Show her you�re fun to be with. Have a laugh. Lighten the mood around the two of you.

You feel she's shut you out. Why? I'm sure it's not because she's evil ... so why?

What do you mean you're always with the kids? You and her can't spend any alone time in the home with the kids in another room?

A few quick comments about the POJA. The default position is to do nothing, not to continue to do something that annoys your spouse. So until you EVER enthusiastically agree for her to go out with her friends, she should not do it. The fact that she is unhappy at home with you only means that you need to replace that activity with something you BOTH enjoy together.

Going out with the girls is ok as long as it isn't done in a way that harms your marriage. And often IT IS. For example, there is a huge difference between going out to the bar with a bunch of women and going to a ladies lunch or shopping. One would not be WISE to ever agree for a spouse to go out to bars without him/her. Spouses who go to bars without their spouse often end up having affairs.

And most importantly, none of that should even be considered until you are getting in 15-25 hours of UA time and have become each others favorite leisure activity.

The important thing to remember, NYC_Runner, is that it is BAD for marriages for you to agree to anything that makes you unhappy. Capitulation is bad for marriages.

Now, when a spouse does something that makes the other unhappy, the default position in POJA is to do nothing until an agreement is reached. That agreement should be reached with a day or two. In the case of going out with her friends, since it is something that makes you unhappy no matter what, it should be eliminated entirely and replaced with something else. That something else should be a social life that includes YOU, NYC_Runner.

Let's say that her decision to go out was made unilaterally in the past. Here is what Harley says about that.

From Lovebusters, pg 170: [case study of wife Judy, who allowed her sister and BIL, Barbara and Jack, to move in with them when Jack lost his job. Judy's H, Bill, eventually moved out when the relatives would not leave]

How should the Policy of Joint Agreement be applied to a decision that has already been made unilaterally? The damage has already been done, so why not see it through to the bitter end? She wanted her sister and brother-in-law to stay until he could find a job, and from then on she would follow the Policy of Joint Agreement.

I explained to her that when the Policy of Joint Agreement has been violated, and a decision has been made without a joint agreement, a couple must correct the decision as soon as possible. In this case, it meant going back to her decision to invite Jack and Barbara to live with them and making that decision again, this time with the POJA in mind. Since she now knew that Bill would not agree to that arrangement, she had no choice but to ask her sister and BIL to find another place to live. As soon as Jack and Barbara moved out, Bill moved back in.

Melody, thank you for the comfirmation that I was rightly upset by her trip. She thinks of herself as an "independent woman". The irony is one of the women has since married... and is now hitched to a very, very independent guy. Already, My wife gets an earful of her woes and regrets frequently.

Independent lifestyles are the kiss of death in a marriage. Successful marriages are contingent upon an interdependent lifestyle where decisions are made with mutual enthusiasm. Harley would call your wife a freeloader:

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accommodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.
Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.

Buyers believe We are together for life.

Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.

Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.

Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.

Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.

Buyer believe Criticism indicates a need for change.

Rentersbelieve Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.

Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.

Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.

Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary.

This is a good list, I'm convinced DW is a Renter. It explains why I'm last of her priorities. She has said she expects 'unconditional love' as Dr. Harley frequently mentions, but withholding hers is ok.

Not sure what to write today, other than check in.

I found a shrink who summarized my issue with confidence and authority figures. I like him, but at $225, not very affordable, and not in insurance plan, and... no POJA to spend that. Trying to find one, "in network", who can also maintain the happy pills. No sense seeing/paying two.

Went to New Years party at neighbors. Came home at 1, and started the year with a 'bang'. I suggested it that morning, but I could tell she was dreading it all day, and it went without much affection or touching.

Had an interview yesterday, scheduled for 1 hr, turned into 2.5 hrs.... good, but so late for daughter 3 birthday dinner. And D1 had a huge project due for school that she had not started. So DW yelling and cursing until 130am.

As yet, I still dont see a path to anything resembling 'romance', unless I win the lottery.

What has happened is that your wife has gone into withdrawal, that often happens after a few years of neglect. She is allowing you to meet two needs; Financial support and Family commitment but is refusing to allow you to meet her more intimate needs. This leaves you feeling understandably exploited.

To turn this around you have to start spending more time together and you have to avoid all the lovebusters which means you stop talking about her as if she is the only one at fault. It is an incredibly simple concept but hard to execute.

Once you have got there, she will be able to help you deal with your confidence issues. Be patient!

It certainly feels like a Catch-22. I am recognizing that I am also at fault. Lots of mistakes. And trying to deal with mine. Trying to spend more time together, but its nearly impossible to get 15 hrs, 25 is just crazy talk. I cant see how we fix this without that, and we cant get there with three kids, her and I in school on saturdays.

Your three daughters are no longer in need of constant supervision. Indeed they are old enough to understand, if you explain, that you two need time away from them and they will come up with ideas for you. They are not old enough to be left unsupervised at home of course but they are old enough for sleepovers with friends.

What is happening is that your wife is not co-operating for the moment, she is hiding behind the kids and so this feels really difficult. Be patient, that will last until she understands that you are going to make the UL time good for her too. Believe me, I have been there (got the t-shirt actually).

Are you saying that she is in school on Saturdays? That might be something up for negotiation. Can it be deferred?

Yes, she is in school saturday morning and afternoon. So we make Saturday date night. The kids are old enough that she can go back to work, and teaching would give her stability, match the kids' schedule, summers, weekends off etc.

I am trying to be patient, especially now that I realize my mistakes and love busters contributed. I'm doing a lot of reading around my "Emotional Intelligence", and career issues. Hopefully I can salvage my career.

There are no guarantees but this is your best path (regardless of who you're married to). Keep it up Runner.

Thanks, the encouragement really helps from all of you guys and gals. This stuff is difficult to deal with, and/or share. Thanks!

So, I had that discussion today with my boss, and its official. Fortunately, he's giving me some time to look internally for a new role. Said he would help, but I dont really believe that. Had a second session with an EQ psych guy, who I really like, but isnt in our insurance. Seeing another group thursday that is. Ugh. Will have to tell DW tonight. That will be hard, but not really unexpected. Thank god for buproprion! Please send prayers... and any networking contacts...

Runner,

Good luck in your search and good luck with DW.

Thanks. I reached out to HR yesterday, and a 'mentor' today who had good advice. And applied to 6-7 positions internally. Talked to another manager about a position. Rays of hope?!?

Weekly update. In case you're wondering.

I finally decided got to a counselor who is in our insurance, and reachable., so far. So at least it will be affordable, and They assure me I'm not tooooooo crazy. (just kidding!)

I've had a couple interviews, both internally and externally. My boss wrote a nasty review, so i'll have to deal with that.

Still taking a software course Sat & Sun to open up some more options.

I found this article, and it had some great advice:
**edit**
I dont know the policy on links, but i thought it worth sharing.

Last night, I asked DW if we could avoid watching TV at night in the bedroom. I was hoping to have a discussion about it, but she was very upset, claiming this is a win-lose problem, she needs the TV to sleep, no TV, no sleep. This would drive her to get a separate bedroom. I simply told her that I get up before her and the TV light keeps me up, and is disrespectful. She insisted on bringing the iPad to bed instead, but soon turned it off. Lots of huffing and heavy sighs. Finally, she said " I know u are trying to negotiate this with me, but there's no upside for me." I asked what she would suggest we do. I asked her to try this for a while as a new habit.

I will keep making two points to DW, her #1 need is FS, and getting to sleep is key to me delivering on that. I cant keep a decent job if Im late and falling asleep at work.

Second, its just plain disrespectful lovebuster to wake somebody up with a TV. She used to fall asleep with it on, so I would wake up at 12, 1am half-dreaming of these rediculous TV conversations and turn it off. Enough to drive a person nuts.

Third, it eliminates any chance of romance,... or even conversation,... at night. Definately NOT UA for either of us. I feel like she does this to avoid sex with me.

Fourth, I'm sick of not getting any respect from her, and feel she cant love me and display such disrespect and contempt. She wants a "strong man" so now she'll have one. No more Mr. Nice Guy! "Nice Guys" finish last. So I am speaking up and putting my foot down.

Ok, thats 4 points. And I can't use logic, so I provided only one 'sleep=job" issue.

This morning, even she admitted she "needs more sleep." wow. So I'm doing her a favor!

Now maybe I can fill up that time with something more enjoyable.

To me, this is a single, huge personal milestone.

NYC,

Have you thought about music instead of the TV? My H and I have a radio/CD player. We play calming, romantic music that shuts itself off after 45 minutes. It covers up the outside sounds as well as sets the mood for intimate conversation before we go to sleep together.

AM

I think that everything about the design of the marital bedroom should scream "romance" and "intimacy". There should be no functionality about your bedroom at all. There should be no fixed media, although a radio is okay as it is small and unobtrusive; absolutely no TV or computer table, and no running machine or exercise bike. I am unimpressed by the big-screen TV that can be controlled from the bed, built-in to provide the feel of luxury.

I accept that my tastes are not yours, so from an MB point of view, your wife should not be doing anything that makes you unhappy or uncomfortable. There is no question that the TV should not be on when you need to sleep. She should not bring her iPad to bed if you would rather she doesn't. If you find it possible to fall asleep initially with the TV on she could experiment with putting the TV on a timer, so that it goes off after she falls asleep, and using headphones.

Somehow an iPad or laptop is different from having a book to fall asleep with, but even with a book, if the light from her reading bothered you she should stop doing it. She could easily learn to fall asleep without aides. I like to read in bed but the light annoys my H, and I don't do it ever.

A lot of things we insist we need to survive are simply habits that we can train ourselves to do without; quite simply, she should care enough about your happiness and comfort not to do things that disturb or annoy you.

You need to discuss and negotiate this with her without turning it into a fight and CERTAINLY without "putting your foot down"; that is not MB. POJA at all times, remember.