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Originally Posted by bonfire1
Again, I'm sure many of you reading this are shaking your head and are busily typing an angry response, which I'll no doubt read and become momentarily confused on my journey through recovery. And there is a chance that my next post won't be so optimistic and you'll have your opportunity to say "I told you so", which may be at my expense but will also serve as a documented tale for you to use to bolster your guiding principles. And while I'm not disparaging those principles, and in fact agree with the core steps outlined here and in the books, I more appreciate your support rather than your cynicism. Until then, I am now going to go hug my wife, tell her I love her, and get some much needed sleep. I will read your replies and take them into consideration, but I will post once I have another update on my road to recovery and reconciliation.
Your arrogance towards this forum is breathtaking. Why are you posting here if this is what you think of us?


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bonfire, I am also very new here and I felt the same way you do when I first started posting. Try to hear this with the compassion that is intended. You NEED to hear these things. Nobody here is concerned about your feelings. They are concerned about helping you save your marriage. They are speaking the truth in love even though it hurts. In the end, you may want to take each of them out to dinner to pay them back for their honesty. You're job at this point, is to hear them, with humility, and act on saving your marriage.

Maybe I am too new here to be offering advise, but everything they are telling you is the truth. I have put off/trickled exposure, just like they advised not to, and it doesn't help. The continuing lies are harder and harder to catch and get WW to admit.

Good luck friend


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Originally Posted by bonfire1
Regarding WW quitting her job, I really don't think it's required in this case.
I've been an adjunct professor for several years, and I've never seen a faculty handbook which did not warn against inappropriate relationships with students. At some colleges, it is grounds for termination. You said you exposed the affair to her colleagues; I hope you included her supervisor. Your wife abused her position, and her supervisor has the right to know about it.

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Originally Posted by bonfire1
Thanks kinglui, your response has been by far one of the best I've seen on this forum. I have to say, the tone of responses on these forums from complete strangers is pretty horrific and has me reeling at a time when I am more vulnerable than I've ever been. And while I may be here to seek advice on how to survive, I'm also here to seek support from people who have gone through what I'm going through. And with regards to most of the responders on here, I am certainly not getting that. I'm not really one to take advice from total strangers, and so a lot of the comments I'm seeing here are being taken with a grain of salt. Frankly, it is making me question the value of the forum at all and why I keep returning (probably why I never participated in forums before now).

bonfire, I am truly disappointed to read the arrogance in your post and wonder why you are here. We are posters just like you who have recovered our own marriages using these principles. We take valuable time out of our own lives to come here and help others get through the most trying time of their lives. You came to us asking for help, and you dismiss it "with a grain of salt?"

Most of us have fully recovered marriages using this program and are passionate about paying it forward. We know that there is a very narrow path back to recovery. Those of us who have cut corners have paid dearly, suffering from on again, off again affairs. I am sorry to see you are dismissing the advice of those in recovered marriages ["taking it with a grain of salt"] in favor of your own inexperienced, uneducated judgment. The same poor judgment that led your marriage to this dismal place, I might add.

The advice you are being given is directly from Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders who has a long successful track record of success.

But that's ok. It is your prerogative to dismiss our advice. And it is my prerogative to post to someone who is not too arrogant to listen. I wish you and your wife all the best...


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I will leave you with this one last post. You can take it or leave it; it's all the same to me:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders in Requirements for Recovery
"The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

<snip unrelated>

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details." here


Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Quote
And I am following MB principles in so much as I subscribe to them. I know that statement will get a lot more snarky responses from some repliers, but so be it.

Adieu. Best of luck to you.

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You will not get the benefits of the program if you do not follow it to the letter.

If you get off crack, that's great. But if you continue to associate with drug dealers, and are around crack, what will happen? You will eventually give in to the temptation and have more crack.

Your marriage can survive her leaving her job. It cannot survive more affairs.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Pep, ML and others,

Do you not see the reality here?

What did we (in whatever "horrific" manner) suggest he do to get the process started?
1) Expose
2) Get NCL written.

And what did he do, that he now agrees yielded benefits?
1) Exposed
2) Got the NCL written

bf1 does not resent our assistance, in and of itself, as much as he does the fact that he cannot claim full credit for the achievement that the assistance facilitated. (That's okay. We're not here to garner awards and accolades. Certainly our use of aliases would make such bestowals difficult!)

So sure, bf1 - YOU DA MAN! YOU DID IT ALONE!

The only remaining - minor - problem is explaining how these sentiments, expressed on arriving on 15 February:

This is very fresh and I'm still shaking after a night of tremendous pain, anger, crying, and no sleep... I've been reading sites like this all morning. I'm learning the first steps to recover here, and I thank you all for posting support...One of the hardest things for me to cope with right now is the intense emotions. I am not a very emotional guy (which I am understanding is one of the things my wife was lacking in our relationship), but right now, I am furious and want to destroy everything in sight, but I also want to curl up in a ball in the corner and hide...

became on 17 February, after two days of (now resented) MB spine-stiffening:

My WW and I have had some amazing discussions over the past 40 hours with very little sleep. I feel like, despite the pain she has caused me, I am beginning to understand more about my WW than I have in the past few years, and she in turn is learning more about me. We are both finding comfort in the fact that we can rebuild our marriage and are excited about starting a new chapter in our lives.

But, being a writer, I'm sure bf1 can spin us a good story.

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
But, being a writer, I'm sure bf1 can spin us a good story.

Indeed! I don't even find that he experienced much harshness or sarcasm. I think it is plain to see that his WW has been courting students in the past and will more than likely be a repeat offender. She needs a career change. And all things considered a career change is really a lot better than a life filled with infidelity and unhappiness which is the certain result if she continues as a professor with lots of male students to get chummy with.


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If she reports back to the place she met Loverboy than you're doomed. This is a fact. Like a fly to poop when the storm fades this Cretan will find his way back for a fresh supply of your wife's tookie.

The tough love you get get here, and I can argue you ain't seen nothing yet, serves a couple purposes. The first is to wake you out of the sleep you've been in that let you miss the fact your wife was cheating on you. The next is to hammer home the need for vigilance no matter how soft and cuddly she is today after getting caught. They're all soft and cuddly at this point and its easy to take our eyes off the process.

Now, look down and make sure you're still a man, get back on here and toughen the heck up. You alienated yourself from the quality people here and you're now stuck with me.

You're not nearly the first to think they can do this thing modified to their liking. Go find my SAA thread and youll see I angered everyone just like you until I realized I knew nothing and they knew everything.



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You are all correct, and Mike, that was pretty spot on, because I am feeling less like a man more and more every day. I apologize for my arrogance. And I am here for advice. I may be expressing my anger on this forum, and that isn't constructive.

My wife was admitted to the ER yesterday for threatening to slit her wrists. I am on suicide watch now. She claims it is from exposure and the fear that she will loose her job and he family over this. I appreciate her remorse, but not at the expense of her going so far... I am trying to save my marriage, but to be honest, I'd rather the marriage sacrifice if it means she doesn't kill her self. I'd rather my little girl grown up in a divorced home than one without a mother at all...

The hospital released her last night after she promised to not kill herself and I agreed to be with her at all times. We cried together all night, followed by making love. It felt wonderful, but also confusing. This morning she's talking to my sister and I'm proud that she is reaching out, but I'm incredibly worried.

Did I make the right decision exposing? Should I really listen to Dr. Harley's advice and ignore my wife's trauma in this? Where is their room to mend the marriage, overcome the affair, and help my wife's depression?

NeverGuessed, I appreciate your post, and you are correct, I feel like I'm moving in the right direction, almost too quickly! My mother told me yesterday that she is blown away by my strength here, but it feels so wrong, especially when my wife is laying in a hospital bed and crying to complete strangers.

You should know that after that last post, I had given up on this site, and pepperband, I don't blame you for giving up on me. But I returned here this morning wanting to ask one specific question (and I ended up going on). While my wife has sent the NC letter (it's waiting at his house), and I have exposed the A to the OM's parents, the OM still doesn't know as he is on a trip. This morning I checked my wife's email, and he has continued to try to contact her. She hasn't seen these emails, and I've been deleting them. But I was wondering if I should contact him and tell him to stop. I don't think it should be my wife, but I don't know how he'll respond if it came from me.

I await your advice, although it is difficult to check this forum because I can't get a moment to myself while I watch my wife every minute.

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Did you verify the contents of the NC letter? I hate to day it but women in affairs are always chronically depressed and sucidal. My wife tried to jump from a moving vehicle on the highway after I exposed. You need to be patient with her and ensure their is 100% NC. What are your snooping mechanisms? Did you expose to her job. Hate to say it but she needs to quit that job and work someone else. I'm sure this isn't her first time. Stay strong and firm. Make sure you read the basic concepts on this site and get those books. Also I recommend lovebusters the book.

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Sorry about your wife. My wife actually used her finger nails to dig into her wrist. I thought it was just more selfishness from her.

You should answer the emails with a warning about contacting her again and implying pain would be involved. Your wife is never, ever to speak to, write to, or, really think about him again.



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FWW/BW (me)
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2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by bonfire1
Did I make the right decision exposing? Should I really listen to Dr. Harley's advice and ignore my wife's trauma in this? Where is their room to mend the marriage, overcome the affair, and help my wife's depression?

Her depression stems from the affair, which will continue as long as she teaches at the college her OM attends. This is why it is so imperative that she leave that job. Not only is the OM right there, but the conditions that allowed this affair to happen exist there. If you want to save your marriage and protect your wife from self destructive behavior, you will get her out of there.

Depression and suicidal ideation are classic symptoms of an adultery. The sooner she leaves that environment, the faster she will heal..

And yes, you should call or see the OM and tell that little POS to buzz off. You might want to also call his parents and ask them to intervene.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by bonfire1
Did I make the right decision exposing? Should I really listen to Dr. Harley's advice and ignore my wife's trauma in this? Where is their room to mend the marriage, overcome the affair,

Dr Harley's advice is not to ignore your wife's trauma so that is a false dichotomy. He is a clinical psychologist and would not tell you to ignore it. Adultery causes suicidal thoughts and depression, so if you kept it a secret, you would be helping the affair THRIVE, which would be a direct contributor to her depression.

Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping it a secret would be much more destructive. And I am not saying this is the case, but we have had many, many wayward WIVES threaten suicide to stop their betrayed spouse from interfering in her affair. You need to be very alert to that factor. Wayward wives are notorious drama queens and "victims" who will play the suicide card or any other card to gain sympathy and prevent interference in her affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thanks all. I am picking up the phone now to call the OM. Wish me luck.

Also, I just want to be clear that my WW is not depressed simply because of the affair, and that she has been suffering from depression for some time (realistically, all of her adult life). I'm sure the anxiety of the A has pushed it to new levels, but she talked of suicide before the A began (even before we were married). I have been foolish for pushing it under the rug for so long, and while you may be right that these threats stem from the drama of the A, she is still in need of mental help, and I feel we have to address that.

FYI, I'm being a little bit trusting right now of my wife, and I'm shaking my head for it, as she is out at a coffee shop doing work. I am monitoring her location and cell phone, and I am happy to say she has not slipped into contacting him yet, despite his efforts to contact her.

Okay, I'm stalling the conversation with the OM by writing too much. Time to go put a stop to his efforts...

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Originally Posted by bonfire1
This morning I checked my wife's email, and he has continued to try to contact her. She hasn't seen these emails, and I've been deleting them. But I was wondering if I should contact him and tell him to stop. I don't think it should be my wife, but I don't know how he'll respond if it came from me.

That email account needs to go. Even after the OM receives your wife's NC letter, you cannot trust that he will just never send her an email to the address he has always used out of good faith. You need to close ALL avenues of possible contact.

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Originally Posted by unwritten
That email account needs to go. Even after the OM receives your wife's NC letter, you cannot trust that he will just never send her an email to the address he has always used out of good faith. You need to close ALL avenues of possible contact.

Just wanted to point out that she is a professor and he is the student. She still works there.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by bonfire1
Also, I just want to be clear that my WW is not depressed simply because of the affair, and that she has been suffering from depression for some time (realistically, all of her adult life).

It is good that you are killing the affair and getting her out of there, because affairs are notorious causes of depression.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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