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It is always interesting when Aphelion weighs in. Aphelion, you are right and wrong in so many ways.

Pepperband, you are right that I have managed to make my life that of Lifetime movie fodder. I'm fairly certain my DH agrees, and that it is not a good thing. I do not think it is a good thing - no Lifetime movie roles for me, please! Thank you for your advice.

NG, Mr. W, thank you for the levity.


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Mr W,
You know something? You're right! I should have addressed my note to V-P, switching the pronouns as required, but making the same point.

I will incorporate that tactic going forward. Thanx.

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Originally Posted By: Aphelion
Anyway, they are not married. They are roommates by mutual agreement.

Oh, perhaps I missed it, but I did not I see where anyone asked if this adulteress got covertly pregenant on purpose. As a trap. I doubt her BH is ever going to belive otherwise.

I hope this BH relents, actually, and agrees to remarry and raise this new child. IMO, abortion is as wrong as adultery. More so.


One last thing it is not incredible guilt that led this WW to make her bad decsions. This is disingineous. Her decision making is questionable from the very start of her adultery.


This WW has made many bad decisions from the affair till now.

However this BH got his divorce as not a means to end his relationship with his WW but as a subsitute RA.

He let WW stay in the home so he would have live cook, maid, nanny, shopper, cleaner, and sex worker.

His abouse of his WW is worse then what his WW did.

As to crying foul that he knocked up his own wife. All I can say is what is he and others smoking.

I am not a doctor, I did not even sleep well last night as I do do not sleep well most nights, and I camp, so I never sleep in a Holiday Inn.

Though with my limited knowledge I have heard of all types of birth control failing, even peopple on the pill, snip jobs, etc.

So when this H kept having SF with his W and now be mad that she is pregnant. This BH has no leg to stand on.

There is only one way to guarantee not to get a woman pregnant. He refused to keep it in his pants.

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Interesting points of view, but I'll leave it alone. V, I hope you really did send in that email. When Joyce calls you, keep strong and excercise your right (against your own self doubt) to talk with Dr. Harley if the chance is offered to you. He does a fantastic job of getting to the salient facts of the matter. I also hope you are still turning to your family for support: they can also help you from getting clouded in your vision. You need and deserve some help from people who have your best interest at heart.


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What do you think of Dr. Harley's answer?


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Oh, sheesh. Few answers, many personal attacks. As usual. Perhaps I should provide a few answers, where I can

Aphelion, three years ago VP was an adulteress, and you were an abusive [censored]. I was? How so? Are you accusing me of spouse abuse? Is this worthy of reporting to the mods? No abuse whatsoever. She would also tell you so. FWW lives her life and I live mine. She has anything and everything she wants (except me). She can leave any time. She can go where she wants. She can do what she wants. She can even go back to 10 year-long OM if she wants. She can find a new OM if she wants. She can find 99 new OMs if she wants. But she cannot hurt me. I am content. And I am safe. Dispite being wired to do it again, as Dr H claims, she can never hurt me again. Can you figure out why?

Even he can read those three sentences in that amount of time! Hah. Cute. I would not have made your deadline if I hadnt postponed a flight to London this morning.

We are advising a former ww that wants to save her marriage and family. Uh, read the thread again. They are not married. She only wants to save her lifestyle that is all I see.

this BH got his divorce as not a means to end his relationship with his WW but as a subsitute RA. He let WW stay in the home so he would have live cook, maid, nanny, shopper, cleaner, and sex worker. I think you should have to prove this. I dont see it. He wanted a D. She wanted to stay in the home. They came to what sounds like an enthusiastic agreement. Very MB. Now she wants to change the agreement. He does not. So the agreement stays unchanged. Still very MB.

So when this H kept having SF with his W and now be mad that she is pregnant. This BH has no leg to stand on. I agree regarding the pregnancy. If the child is his. I also agree with Pep. A valid option is for this adulteress is to move away, get an attorney and sue for child support. If it is his.

This is mostly a thread that is picking on a BH who also apparently made some unfortunate mistakes but is not here to defend himself. Until he is, it is all speculation. And typical. I am mildly surprised the original adulery is not yet elevated to another of Dr Hs unfotunate mistakes" by now.

Relax. I will not post on this thread again. But, IMO unrepresented BHs deserve a bit more empathy. No one knows what this BH is really doing, or what he is really thinking. It is coming second hand from an adulteress. I dont believe much of it.


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He represented himself very well by posting to her pretending to be an observer, and denying he was her H when people began to be suspicious. She found out that Mike was indeed her H. He made his feelings about her very clear both on this thread and on his own. He isn't unrepresented. He chooses not to represent himself openly, and now, not at all.

He can represent himself as soon as he likes - I am sure he is reading every word she writes, as he always was.


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Oops, maybe I wasn't clear.

V_,
What do you think of Dr. Harley's answer and Joyce's thoughts regarding your situation?


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Aphelion, I post this to you because I feel your perspective, as irksome as it may sometimes be, is not too dissimilar from some statements my DH has made over these past years since D-day.

I am not engaging in a discussion with you regarding the myriad assertions you make in your posts. I will only state that, while some of your sentiments may be on target, many of your declarations are erroneous.

Thank you for being a cautionary tale. I mean that sincerely, and I wish you peace.


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Originally Posted By: LifetimeLearner


Oops, maybe I wasn't clear.

V_,
What do you think of Dr. Harley's answer and Joyce's thoughts regarding your situation?





I missed it! cry Now I have to wait for it to be archived. Doh! I am flattered they chose to address my email. I later received an email from Joyce regarding receiving a copy of "Love Busters," which I forgot all about when I emailed. I haven't yet read that book, and look forward to reading in detail about LBs.


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Originally Posted By: SugarCane
He represented himself very well by posting to her pretending to be an observer, and denying he was her H when people began to be suspicious. She found out that Mike was indeed her H. He made his feelings about her very clear both on this thread and on his own. He isn't unrepresented. He chooses not to represent himself openly, and now, not at all.

He can represent himself as soon as he likes - I am sure he is reading every word she writes, as he always was.


SC, this actually was that friend. DH agrees it was foolish of him to share his MB account information, and should have been more suspicious as to why.

The friend was on target w/ his story, though, as he was trying to covertly obtain advice for my DH (unbeknownst to DH).

The larger problem is that DH feels I misrepresent him. I do not intend to do that, but I include my own speculations that I believe fuel judgment that may be levied at DH.

I must stick to the facts when I post, and increase O&H + communication with DH to make sure I am posting accurate information.

I'm pretty sure many of you will think I'm being snowed. Or willfully blind to the red flags that others may see. I think it's just that I haven't done a good enough job w/ word/post choice.


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Update:

DH and I have discussed things more. He clarified his intent regarding his statement of if I have this baby, he will leave. He does not recall saying it. He states that what he was getting at during that discussion was that his load is heavy and incredibly burdensome already, and adding one more child to that may be too much for him. He would physically/emotionally/mentally breakdown.

I was honest w/ him about my conflicted thoughts on this, that a part of me considered an abortion was the ultimate way to show him I would do whatever it takes to recover, that I was sorry. He and I both pointed out how the way things currently are is unhealthy. He carries too much resentment and pain, and I have a burden of guilt. While the guilt cannot be undone, the weight of both his and my emotions are keeping us stuck virtually at D-day.

I discussed my desire for things to change. I told him I would like to keep the family intact, but there is a clear need to do something different for the relationship. We talked about not bringing up the affair, though we both feel like that is similar to saying "Forget it and move on w/ your lives." I told him that I don't think it's about forgetting it - neither he nor I would do well by that - but I think it's more about not letting it dominate our thoughts day in, day out, and our time and energy could have been better spent these last years redirecting our thoughts and focusing on the marriage, meeting ENs, etc.

He mentioned that, prior to my affair, things were not bad. It would've all been fine. I replied that I agree, but I didn't have the affair because things weren't bad. I had the affair because I had terrible boundaries and was incredibly selfish. It was a hard, hard lesson learned, but I feel I got my head on straight and became a much better partner (barring my adulterous past) in the marriage in the next few years after D-day. Even w/ a few years between us and D-day, though, it was still incredibly raw and hurtful for DH. Time had helped, but not enough. However, my subsequent return to school greatly impacted any strides we could continue to make forward w/ healing. Now that we have had more time pass, and w/ the experience learned, we may be in a better position to try and really fix things.

So far we are emphasizing UA time and meeting ENs. I was honest with him about my desires, and my hope to start working MB more, so to speak, and see results. This probably seems like a long and unnecessarily detailed update about nothing concrete, but it is a step forward.


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This sounds better.

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Thank you, Pep. I am glad you think so. smile


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...his load is heavy and incredibly burdensome already, and adding one more child to that may be too much for him. He would physically/emotionally/mentally breakdown.

Wow! What a wienie!
That might be a DJ (like I care! rotflmao ), and maybe I'm interpreting your precise words, instead of his meaning, or his actual utterances, but seriously, THAT'S what he has to offer?

This would be the weight that broke the stem of "Mr Hot-House-Flower"? Boy, that is certainly yet another sign of the decline of this civilization!

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I did write I would not post on your thread again. But, I would like to say it is good you have gotten off the dime. It sometimes takes an irritant.

As far as being a CT, good for me. Actually, I fully admit MB worked like a charm killing the VLTA. I have no complaints there. But, this generating/recovering romantic love stuff. Ugh. I seem to be immune. Does not work on me any more. RL is just another weapon with which one will be hurt, again. I dont need it. I have made a new and much better life without it. All is good.

Im off to GB on Monday and wont be reading here for a few weeks. So, best of luck to you and BH.

eta: BTW, there is a difference between culpability and guilt (though some dictionaries list them as synonyms, they are not). One cannot be erased, but the other often can. You and BH should explore this.


PS: NeverGuessed, I think I need to yield the title of Biggest MB Meanie back to you.

Last edited by Aphelion; 02/22/13 04:10 PM.

"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

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A skosh on the heavy-handed side, NG. NO?

I admit the 180 degree departure from 'you must destroy this baby' to 'lets try and figure this out' was not foreseen, or at not so quickly without some MB technique in play.

Some of us can role play Mr. V's side too darn well and I admit the pressures levied on him (us) are immense. To be riding this roller coaster and then be smashed over the head with a unexpected pregnancy would make nearly any BH go bonkers. Sure, I would never demand my wife terminate my baby should we find ourselves in a similar spot, but I almost understand the loss of mental control.

Hopefully, he'll allow her to carry as stress-free as possible by supporting her and she'll continue to make amends to him.


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Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed

That might be a DJ (like I care! rotflmao ), and maybe I'm interpreting your precise words, instead of his meaning, or his actual utterances, but seriously, THAT'S what he has to offer?

This would be the weight that broke the stem of "Mr Hot-House-Flower"? Boy, that is certainly yet another sign of the decline of this civilization!


Yeah lets remember this is an open forum..no handholding allowed, or expected..right ppl?

I like Rugby...


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I'm confused again. I thought you relayed that he discussed with you having an abortion, even saying to you that it was "inconsequential" and not a big deal. Are you saying that he really didn't say that he would leave if you had the baby? Does he still hold that he might break down if you have it?

In this discussion, did he say he was willing to implement the MB plan for recovery along with you?


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skeptical

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