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Originally Posted By: LifetimeLearner

I'm confused again. I thought you relayed that he discussed with you having an abortion, even saying to you that it was "inconsequential" and not a big deal. Are you saying that he really didn't say that he would leave if you had the baby? Does he still hold that he might break down if you have it?

In this discussion, did he say he was willing to implement the MB plan for recovery along with you?



He said those words. He does not recall that. There have been a number of times where those positions have been reversed, and I am not pursuing that phrase given our recent discussion.

Our previous discussions were not frank on my part, and I shared w/ him a few concerns about obtaining an abortion while keeping most of my thoughts to myself regarding the state of the marriage, the feeling of being left on my own to figure this out after the threat of him or baby, and the inevitable demise of what had become an intolerably unhealthy relationship.

This most recent discussion was much more open and honest. I shared w/ him my remembrance of that ultimatum, what that meant to me, and my assessment of our current relationship and admission of its untenability. While he feels another child would be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, he clarified that he would never abandon his child. He was surprised that I would think that of him, and I told him I would never think that of the old him, but feared that my actions had driven him and his pain to be capable of making such a decision now.

I am not sure what changed for him. And it's only been 1-2 days. While he did not verbally commit to the MB plan, I did not ask that of him. However, we have been following through on a number of the MB suggestions I brought up in our recent discussion. I am happy with that, and hope the continued implementation of MB will help.


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Interesting. If V's H insists he did not, in fact, say what she represented here to us (and, I mean, what could be more specific than a request to have an abortion) what would MB say about that? Is it a DJ to continue to think that he did?

V, how do you feel about the fact that you are not legally married? Are you enthusiastic about that? If not, what are you going to do about it?

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Originally Posted By: kerala
Interesting. If V's H insists he did not, in fact, say what she represented here to us (and, I mean, what could be more specific than a request to have an abortion) what would MB say about that? Is it a DJ to continue to think that he did?


Interesting question, kerala. For clarification, the debate is not about an abortion, the question was whether or not he issued the ultimatum of baby versus him. While I recall what he said w/ 100% certainty, I am deferring to his comments during our most recent discussion. I do not want to worsen our inability to move forward by repeating the past mistakes of holding onto wrongs.

Originally Posted By: kerala
V, how do you feel about the fact that you are not legally married? Are you enthusiastic about that? If not, what are you going to do about it?


Ahh, this question. smile This has bothered me since we legally D'd. My long-term plan is to remedy that. Our latest discussion would have been a good time to raise that issue, but for now I think working the program for a while will be required. To be honest, I unconsciously backburner-ed this issue while tackling the baby / family intact / family not intact concerns.

Last edited by V_planifolia; 02/22/13 06:55 PM. Reason: typo

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Originally Posted By: V_planifolia
SC, this actually was that friend. DH agrees it was foolish of him to share his MB account information, and should have been more suspicious as to why.

The friend was on target w/ his story, though, as he was trying to covertly obtain advice for my DH (unbeknownst to DH).

Tha makes no sense to me.

Was this your H, or wasn't it? http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/u...094#Post2501094


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Originally Posted By: SugarCane
Originally Posted By: V_planifolia
SC, this actually was that friend. DH agrees it was foolish of him to share his MB account information, and should have been more suspicious as to why.

The friend was on target w/ his story, though, as he was trying to covertly obtain advice for my DH (unbeknownst to DH).

Tha makes no sense to me.

Was this your H, or wasn't it? http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/u...094#Post2501094



As I recall, MikeX's texts came from the same IP address (their home) on days when V was pretty sure he could not have been there.

I'm sorry V, and you likely don't want to hear it, but it sounds like you're being gaslighted.

Don't get me wrong - I am happy that you are starting to discuss things more constructively, but stuff like this makes me concerned.

ETA: I can understand WHY your H might do that. It wasn't very nice, but we're on a site that routinely deals with marital infedelity, so let's keep a little perspective. But, to continue to lie and obfuscate about it - THAT is a problem.

Last edited by kerala; 02/22/13 08:18 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Fireproof
Originally Posted By: Mrs_Vanilla
All right, time out. I have a "mutual friend" that just emailed me whom I need to deal with. A "mutual friend" who has a history of doing this. Misguided as it may be. I don't know yet if my DH knows or not that the "mutual friend" did this.


MrsVanilla, that is very possible if this friend posted from your home yesterday. The initial IP match orginated from your home.


I'm confused. MODS confirmed the IP address was from your home. So how can it still be your H's friend?


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If the friend was using that computer, I think.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

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Indeed, the friend was using the computer. When I assumed the friend was out of the country, the reality was he would occasionally visit the city here on behalf of his organization, at which point he would meet up w/ DH - @ work, @ our apartment.

I did not want to get into this issue, as DH and I have long since resolved it. However, it is unfair to him if by silence I perpetuate the original inaccurate conclusion that MikeX was in fact DH.


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Originally Posted By: V_planifolia


Originally Posted By: kerala
V, how do you feel about the fact that you are not legally married? Are you enthusiastic about that? If not, what are you going to do about it?


Ahh, this question. smile This has bothered me since we legally D'd. My long-term plan is to remedy that. Our latest discussion would have been a good time to raise that issue, but for now I think working the program for a while will be required. To be honest, I unconsciously backburner-ed this issue while tackling the baby / family intact / family not intact concerns.


So, you two are really just living together. There's an article here that discusses that caring for children means caring for each other. Dr. Harley says in there "If parents love their children, and want the best for their children, they must do everything possible to preserve their romantic relationship." (Emphasis mine). http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_care.html

Anyway, maybe this issue is something that should be vetted in the short term, for how can both of you work on your marriage if you guys don't have one? Just a thought.


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Was able to listen to the radio show. Dr. Harley reiterated what was discussed here regarding the parameters of JC. He labeled my DH's actions as that of an abuser. I don't think DH is abusive. I think he is hurt. But I see Dr. Harley's point.

The good news is Dr. Harley and Joyce specified that IF DH was not interested in working on the marriage, then I should seek outside help. However - I think he is! Time will tell, but continued baby steps forward.


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Originally Posted By: V_planifolia
All right. I spoke w/ DH, and I think I have the story now.

Apparently this friend is in town, and he stopped by our apartment yesterday while the kids and I were out of town. A while ago he had asked for DH's info to log on, as the friend was "having some trouble" doing it on his own. So the friend has log-in information that is DH's, and he logs on yesterday using our home wireless network while he and DH are visiting.

Also apparently he is still in the area today, and happens to be using a server that is my husband's work server - this part I am still unsure of as to how that's possible.

The friend asked that I not be informed of his visit, and DH also did not share with me that he gave the friend the login info. I jumped to the conclusion, (a natural one, I think, given the evidence), that DH was involved in all of this - either posting directly or indirectly via the friend.

I was quite certain prior to this that those saying MikeX was my DH were utterly wrong - that DH would never do that, that the level of openness and honesty and the relationship we have would preclude any sorts of deceitful dealings like that.

And I was right, DH was not aware of the friend posting or knowing what the friend posted - he didn't really question giving the friend the info, and this all just snowballed. (Because I am dramatic, says me.)

Were you out of town when MikeX started his own thread, in April 2011? I'm not talking about the posts to your thread in September 2011, which you accept were posted from your H's computer by his friend.

The moderator said that the posts from April 2011 were also from the same place.

Originally Posted By: Fireproof
Originally Posted By: Mrs_Vanilla
I think it's only the posting from yesterday and today that are server-ID'd. The ones prior to that SHOULD (although, clearly, at this point, I am not the one of those in the know) be from farther away - at least out of state, if not out of country.


MrsVanilla, we did check and they are not farther away. They are the same IPs we see now from the same city.


Are you saying that he used your H's computer several months earlier, to start a thread as a husband in a marriage very similar to yours at the time?

Why would he have done this?


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He visited DH's work on several occasions. He also stayed in the city for several days at a time. As far as I am aware, he only visited our apartment once.

So, yes, he was able to use H's computer / server to post multiple times at such intervals.

He does this sort of thing because he thinks he can help out DH. I believe the misconception exists that the MB forum "is on my side," and DH posting would be met w/ a not-impartial audience. Hence, the friend creating this story, thinking he could obtain impartial advice for my DH.


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Originally Posted By: V_planifolia
He visited DH's work on several occasions. He also stayed in the city for several days at a time. As far as I am aware, he only visited our apartment once.

So, yes, he was able to use H's computer / server to post multiple times at such intervals.

He does this sort of thing because he thinks he can help out DH. I believe the misconception exists that the MB forum "is on my side," and DH posting would be met w/ a not-impartial audience. Hence, the friend creating this story, thinking he could obtain impartial advice for my DH.

I think that you are so concerned with the idea that Just Compensation is anything that your H asks for that you refuse to countenance that he may be going too far, even when Dr H tells you this.

You were so concerned with JC that you agreed to divorce him and give him custody of the kids while "working on recovery" i.e. looking after his house and family and meeting his ENs.

You are so concerned that nothing he does to you after your affair could be as bad as what you did to him via the affair that you will not see that the person posting was him all along, and that as MikeX he was telling you his real feelings about recovering from the affair.

There is a balance to be drawn between, on the one hand, radical honesty about our feelings after the affair and our despair for the future, and on the other, lovebusting. Dr Harley says, in the book Surviving an Affair, that he persuaded Sue not to tell Jon in the first few weeks that she did not love him after the affair, and to work on UA time and meeting needs to see if her feelings changed, which they did, slowly.

On the online course we are told not to tell our spouses about low scores in the lovebank inventory, because this will be demoralising to the marriage. After working the course our scores should go up, and we can be honest about our past feelings at a later date.

Your H, or his friend, posting as MikeX, revealed your H's very demoralised feelings, which are wholly understandable. What is not understandable or acceptable is for him to keep this deception going that he had nothing to do with those posts and that it is okay to continue to deceive you.

His willingness to carry on deceiving you rather than coming clean about the posts, and his nudging you towards abortion to please him shows to me that Dr Harley is much more accurate in his assessment of your H than you are.


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I don't think V_ is willing to hear and accept the truth of her situation. So, V_, you don't think he's using abusive tactics, he's just hurt. Abusive tactics are actions, behaviors, being hurt is a feeling or emotion. Even when one is really hurt, the answer doesn't have to be "use Lovebusters." One could say that after 5 years of JC, the abusive tactics should be gone. They are not. You let him lie to you and alter the reality of what has been said and done, and you let him get away with it by believing (or pretending) to believe him.

Does posting here cause trouble for you with him? Do some of the things we say here cause trouble? Does he pressure you to "set the record straight" here on this thread?


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That's it, I think. The dynamic must be quite uncomfortable for her when he is criticized here, given that he reads everything she says.

ETA: In which case, we can't really expect her to answer.

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For the record: I don't really expect her to answer the point I made. I wasn't asking a question. I was challenging the absolute nonsense she has been told about the friend creating a thread to post his "own" story when it was really her H's story, and posting this via her H's PC using his login details. I'm amazed that she actually seems to be taking that fairy story seriously.

So I don't expect an ansewer, but if I am given a bullcrap answer (via the "friend" of the H) then I will challenge it.


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Dear, loving trusting V. planifolia,

you trust your husband because you want him to be trustworthy. You don't want to live in a cold cruel world where your husband does not love you and where he will threaten to take away your children because you are having his child.

Oh, I lived it. I know.
- if I love him enough, some of the love will come back to me
- if I love him enough, he will see that I am to be trusted
- if I do anything for him he will realize how much I love him
- if I go the other mile, my happiness is just around the corner
- just this one last thing to make him happy with me
- the poor dear will have psychological problems, it would be cruel to keep the child that he does not want
- he is just going through an unhappy phase, after that he will be the old wonderful him again
- he is just behaving like this because he is stressed
- he would never mean to say something like that normally
- we will be a happy family again if I just meet all of his needs
- he is hurt, that makes him say things he would not normally say
- the real him is not abusive, he is not himself at the moment
- I am to blame for his behaviour

From one doctor to the other:
- would you do to someone you love what he does to you?
- do you think it is plausible that another person, who does not know that his IP-adress will be verified will only post on this forum when he is in your city and will not even once post from the comfort of their own home?
- please seek legal advice BEFORE you lose your children
- you know that if you do get an abortion allthough you feel you are killing your child, that you are predestined to get psychological problems

He has already let you know that he does not feel bound to you via legal nor religious vows. That does not prevent him from having sex with you. What does that make you in his eyes? I know it is painful to think about and that you are desperately loving him and clinging to him, but that is your truth. Wat is his? His story changes all the time. What does that tell you? What will he tell the children about you when they grow up? What has he told his parents?

As a doctor-to-be you must know the experiment from the little monkeys who wer clinging to the wire surrogate mother (Harlow experiment). Who are you clinging to? To someone who makes you safe or to someone who holds the strings that can make your world collapse?

I am praying for you and I hope that you will be allright. But some day in the future you may think back pity your poor self. And than you will wish you yould be able to hug that girl with all that she has to go through and make her feel safe.

No woman should have to go through what you are going through. No woman should be pregnant and feel that her baby is not welcome in this world. No woman should go through the feeling of being rejected by the father of her baby in that vulnerable time in her life. Regardless if you are expecting your third child or your first.

Dear VP, I will pray for you. Please look out for yourself.

May God bless you and your three children.

Last edited by happyheart; 02/28/13 03:47 PM.

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This is Mrs. V's husband. I came across these postings very recently (well after Mrs. V's last posting) and, after a lengthy conversation with Mrs. V, I didn't think it would be helpful to post. However, Mrs. V requested me to post to provide some closure and I'm complying with the request. (Just for the record, I have not asked Mrs. V to stop posting (much less "to set the record straight") - she independently decided not to post for the time being but may decide to do so in the future (it's her decision).)

Current State of the Marriage: In case people get the impression that I'm just lounging on the couch sipping on a pina colada while Mrs. V is on her knees cleaning the floors and meeting all my ENs . . . . for the past 2 months, this is our schedule: Mrs. V leaves to the hospital at 4-5am. I get up around 6-6:30am, get the kids ready, get them breakfast, drop them off at school, get to work late (yes, everyday) and get back home from work around 7-8pm. Mrs. V gets back shortly before me and we both eat dinner (whether Mrs. V makes it, we order in, or eat leftovers), watch a little TV and then Mrs. V is in bed by about 8:30-9:30pm. I'll then stay up studying and working until around 11:30pm-1am and then repeat the cycle all over again the next day. Typically, one day during the weekend, Mrs. V has the same schedule while I stay home and look after the kids. While we both have tried to arrange for a date night, it just never happens.

The Affair: Contrary to what seems like everyone's perception on this discussion forum, I have not used Mrs. V's affair as an excuse for my behavior or as the reason she must comply with my "demands" or "orders". I don't recall the last time we talked about her affair other than generally when discussing the state of our marriage. In fact, I don't know what "demands" I make of Mrs. V at all - I have not asked her to look after the kids, do any household chores, pay for anything or to meet my ENs. (I pay for all of Mrs. V's expenses other than the debt she incurs for her medical school tuition (including a nice car to drive to the hospital/medical school, a motorcycle for her own personal leisure, expensive shoes/boots, whatever clothes she wants, frequent dining out, etc.).) I have also hired a nanny (again, which I fully pay for) who looks after the kids after school and does a large portion of the household chores. I have also asked Mrs. V to forget the affair ever happened and to move on. We obviously are not spending enough time together, but I don't know what else I need to do differently to remove this guilt Mrs. V has.

MB Principles: I was quite surprised when Mrs. V said I wasn't interested in following the MB principles. I read the MB books first, introduced her to the books, bought marriage counseling sessions for her birthday and am fairly well-versed with the MB principles. Given the foregoing schedule, we BOTH are obviously not following all the MB principles (e.g., 15 hours of undivided attention a week is simply not happening). However, to state that I somehow don't believe in MB principles because of the current state of our marriage or to state that I'm somehow solely responsible for where we are in our marriage is not true. Mrs. V admitted that I never said I wasn't interested in following the MB principles and that this was a complete assumption on her part.

Marriage: Mrs. V mentioned that she thought I didn't believe that we're religiously married. I most certainly believe that we're religiously married. That being said, we have BOTH joked about us not being legally married. I don't recall doing this in recent months (Mrs. V doesn't either) but I know that BOTH of us joked about this before. I took it to always mean that we were joking about the legal state of our marriage - I've never said we were not married religiously and Mrs. V admitted to this. Also, we've joked about Mrs. V's affair and the state of our marriage in the past and never had any such misunderstandings. For example, a couple years ago, a celebrity chef (Michael Simon) who both Mrs. V and I think looks a lot like Mrs. V's affair partner was coming to our town. She emailed me information about the event suggesting that we should go. She clearly meant this as a joke - although I could have posted this fact on a forum and said she was taunting me about her affair, that would be factually inaccurate and I took no offense to her actions. In any case, I will stop joking about this. I have also made clear to Mrs. V that I believe that we are most certainly married religiously.

Ultimatum: Before Mrs. V's most recent set of postings on this forum, we only had two 30-second conversations (literally) regarding her pregnancy (or, for that matter, on any of the topics she raised in her most recent set of postings). These were not "heated" conversations where either of us were shouting or raising our tones. Neither were these conversations lengthy ones where we asked each other questions and flushed out each other's thoughts on the relevant issues. They were quick simple exchanges and Mrs. V never raised any of her concerns with me except for her religious concerns. I don't recall ever giving her an ultimatum re: me or the baby during those quick conversations. Offering such an ultimatum would be entirely inconsistent with my prior behavior and actions (and Mrs. V admitted to that as well). (In fact, the first time Mrs. V mentioned this "ultimatum," I corrected Mrs. V immediately - I never maintained a contrary position. Mrs. V's sister also told Mrs. V that she didn't think I would give such an ultimatum - such an ultimatum would be entirely inconsistent with my prior behavior and actions.) If such a serious (and uncharacteristic) ultimatum was given, I'm not sure why further clarification wasn't requested or why it didn't prompt further discussion. The only point of my statements during those quick conversations was that it didn't seem like our marriage could support another child. From the foregoing schedule I mentioned, I hope people understand why I was making the point I was.

"Mocking and Disparaging": I wasn't initially sure why Mrs. V thought I was "mocking or disparaging" her. When I asked her about this, she said that I responded to her religious concerns during one of the 30-second conversations regarding abortion with: "You're raising religion now?" (Mrs. V didn't identify any other instance where I was "mocking and disparaging" her.) I do recall stating this (and regret and apologize for stating it), but it was not meant to be mocking or disparaging; I was just truly puzzled by her raising religious concerns. Mrs. V violates several relatively serious religious laws on a frequent basis (e.g., performing physical exams on male patients) and it seemed odd that she was raising religion as a concern in this context. (I was not asking the question in the context of her violating religious principles during her affair.) She had also taken a morning after pill just a couple months ago without any hesitation. Given the disregard for religion in other contexts and her readiness to take the morning after pill, I wasn't quite sure what her religious objection was to an abortion (particularly because there are many religious scholars (in our religion of course) who clearly state that an abortion is permissible within the first 120 days since the religion believes a soul has not entered the fetus until the 120th day). I was not trying to mock or disparage her and she didn't say anything after I made my inadvertently "mocking and disparaging" statement - I took it to mean that she knew why I was puzzled. She certainly didn't seem offended by the statement. Regardless of how anyone interprets those words I used, it certainly was not a pattern of behavior - it was a one-time incident.

Divorce: The legal divorce we had soon after Mrs. V's affair was not something she granted me. Neither was it something I forced her to do. The divorce was a legal right I exercised - under the laws of our state, a spouse can get a divorce if the other spouse committed adultery. Mrs. V could not have unilaterally stopped the divorce. We also both had separate expensive attorneys representing us and she was fully aware of her rights. She knew exactly how much money we had and we did the equivalent of a 50/50 split on assets. With respect to alimony, we agreed that it didn't make sense for me to pay alimony since we were both professionals and she had (and still does have) a lucrative future ahead of her. I also made explicitly clear to her (and Mrs. V admitted this was true) that her signing the divorce settlement was not meant to mean that I was agreeing to go back in the relationship. Getting back in the relationship was a separate issue. As for the kids, we agreed that both of us were equally capable and good parents, and agreed that we would raise the kids together while I would keep them under my roof. This was because I didn't feel I should be denied having the kids in my house simply because she had an affair and caused the divorce. The legal term for this in our state is "joint" custody - we both have equal rights, but the kids just live in my house.

Medical School: Mrs. V suggested that she went back to medical school because of me and has since incurred $100,000 in student loans because of me. This is not factually accurate. Within the first 2 months of her going back to medical school, Mrs. V said that she was going back because of me and I corrected her and told her that she should make a decision herself and that she shouldn't do it for me. (And this wasn't a short 30-second conversation - Mrs. V clearly remembers this and understood what I was telling her.) Mrs. V could have decided not to continue with medical school but ultimately decided otherwise. This was a decision she independently made.

Mrs. V's Family: Mrs. V said I have an "intense" dislike for her family. She didn't recall posting that when I spoke with her. I don't know where she got that from. I invited her parents over our house last summer, spent this past Christmas break with them, took her grandmother out to an expensive steak house last year, bought expensive Christmas gifts for her other grandparents for the past couple years and spent a substantial amount of time visiting both sets of her grandparents this year. Also, when my sister-in-law and her husband came to town and stayed with us, we all went out to a dinner and a movie and had a great time. My sister-in-law also apologized for the way she treated me soon after D-Day. I'm still hurt by some of the things they did/said soon after D-Day, but I would never characterize that as an "intense" dislike. Mrs. V was surprised she said that in a posting and I think her family would be too. I honestly don't know where this came from.

MikeX Postings: This was not me. MikeX fessed up to Mrs. V immediately (well before I knew what was going on). Many of you don't believe me and that's fine. In case you're wondering why anyone would do what he did, note that MikeX has been intimately part of Mrs. V's and my relationship since college. Also, in college, he did something very similar (pretending to be someone he was not) and caught Mrs. V trying to cheat on me with an old friend. Mrs. V similarly used MikeX's identity online in college to communicate with me (obviously without me knowing about it at the time). Retrospectively speaking, was it all stupid? Yes. Will it happen again if I have any control over it? No.

Criticism of MB Forum: While I appreciate the immense support that everyone has been offering Mrs. V, I don't think it's appropriate to be providing marriage advice without hearing both sides of the story. I think the forum is a great place to provide emotional support for BSs and FWSs, but dispensing marriage advice is entirely a different matter. Neither anyone on the forum nor Steve Harley knew that Mrs. V had no substantive conversation with me regarding her concerns. They also didn't know of the factual inaccuracies in Mrs. V's postings. Your advice was on the verge of destroying a marriage when a simple conversation could have saved it (and, yes, your advice was on the verge of destroying this marriage). At the very least, please be careful before telling someone to get a divorce.

Thanks to everyone for your input in our marriage. I've learned a lot from this experience - particularly that I need to work on creating a better environment for Mrs. V to voice her concerns. That being said, I simply don't have the time to respond to all the back and forth on this forum. Mrs. V reviewed this posting to correct any factual inaccuracies and misstatements, but I welcome her to also post if she thinks she has anything else to add. In the meantime, I have kids to take care of, a demanding job and, more importantly, a marriage that needs my attention. I wish you all the very best.


Me - 30 (FWW)
H - 30 (BH)
DSx2
D-day: 2008
Joined: Nov 2008
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For completion of both perspectives, and for some closure to this self-inflicted melodrama:

After DH and I talked honestly, I realized I was wrong on a number of accounts I worried about above. I can no longer let my guilt drive my actions regarding fear of speaking to DH about serious issues, not speaking up or lodging complaints, or making myself an inferior member of this relationship. None of those things have come from him - he has a strong need for open and honest conversation from me, he repeatedly encourages me to speak up and state if I disagree so we can both address something, and he has never once told me I am anything less than an equal partner in this marriage. All of those feelings were the product of my imagination.

I will not post on this thread for a while of my own accord. I need to spend time being O&H w/ my DH first, and not speculating and letting my negative thoughts get the best of me.


Me - 30 (FWW)
H - 30 (BH)
DSx2
D-day: 2008
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,121
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H
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You know, pal... your wife wasn't here posting because your marriage is all daisies and lollipops.

You make a well-versed argument using courtroom poise, but it don't make you look like a betteer husband.


NEGLECT is DESTROYING (not "nearly destroying") your marriage.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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