MSS, this is what I keep telling her. The trickle truth will drag things on and cause more pain in the end. It also causes even more mistrust. I've come to see that WS see self protection as their main goal, at least at first. Hopfully, once the fog clears, they begin to see marriage protection as their main goal.

Mother's Day is also the day I chose to stop a lot of my lousy qualities. Naivete ended. Trust ended. Gullibility ended. And I took the opportunity to improve myself. I down 20 pounds since then, Ive worked on my own health.

But, most of all, I made if abundantly clear to the Mrs. that I, nay, SHE will be out the friggin' door so fast unless I see changes in the way she goes about life. She was to immediately seek a career in the field for which she was trained. Rather than be some flunky which was actually a front for an adulterous affair.

She was to discontinued wasting my time and that of our kids'.

The air of comfortability was removed. MSS is committed to this family but now under somewhat tenuous terms. The clock on her affair may have stopped on 5/9/11, but in MSS' world I have no time limit on anything. She chose to abuse the best thing that she'll ever get in return for nothing.

I have lots more time to get things as I deserve them.

This is the harsh reality THAT SHE CREATED. There are no threats, they were made in 2011. There are no continued outward or new demands, all I needed was laid out in 2011.

I expected a level of honesty that eluded her for many years. And a whole bunch of things to improve our marriage. These are not unreasonable expectations of a "formerly" adulterous spouse. In fact, 2 years later I have a woman who is still eager to meet my needs. And I hers.

Good to see you on other threads. The names change in affairs but as you have read the script stays the same. Any updates? Your wife ready earn that forgiveness and the (F)WW?

We had some breakthroughs over the weekend. We discussed the EPs and how important they are to ME and I think she's starting to understand. You wouldn't think it to be possible, but it has been difficult for me to get the point across to my pastor's wife that I am starting at zero trust. She has a hard time grasping that idea because she's never been at that point in her life. She thinks the "rules" of the EPs are a little much. After explaining where I am coming from, she's starting to understand more. Her husband, my Pastor, however, gets it completely and is in full support of the EPs.

After we got home from out meeting last night, she deleted her FB profile and is working on a list of people that need to be notified when she changes her phone #. I realize it's an inconvenience but its a small one compared to what we're dealing with.

She is dealing with a lot of shame and guilt. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to support her through that? To me, this is a good sign that she is coming to grips with what she has done. She is praying through that and learning some things about herself in the process. I am also learning about some of my LBs that I'm guilty of and I've committed to stop those.

Most of what we are learning (or re-learning) is how to communicate with each other. There are a lifetime of mistakes that we are looking back on and trying to figure out how to avoid them going forward.

Have you seen this?

Recovery After an Affair

I did read that article right after D-Day. It was good to reread it today though. Thank you for the link.

WW is definitly in full withdrawal. I am starting to make as many deposits as I can and avoid the withdrawals. She's almost done with SAA and is feeling the pressure of having to do something (EPs, UA time, counselling, etc) but has been reluctant. It looks like she's starting to move on some of the EPs and I expressed how happy that made me for her to be willing to do whatever it takes to save the M. I am trying to deposit hope in her that we can have a better M. I hope to see some results of those deposits soon.

The one area that I have been trying to get WW to discuss with me for years is finances. I have asked, pleaded, begged her to work with me and set some common financial goals that we can work towards. I asked her what kind of things she wanted, what kind of future/retirement years she wanted, what she wanted to do with the house. I've tried to dig into every area I could think of and her response has always been, "I dont know" or "I dont like talking about this stuff". This weekend she tells me that she doesn't feel like I've treated her as an equal partner in the marriage. When I asked her what areas she doesn't feel like an equal partner....

Here it comes.... wait for it... wait for it.....

Yep, finances. WTF!!!

I practiced my listening skills and listened for 10 more minutes. When she was done (a pause of several minutes where others talked) I asked her how she couldn't have felt equal with all of my efforts to get her involved and she said I was controlling the conversation and that she wasn't finished yet. If I let her finish, she would make more sense....

2 days later, still waiting. Ugh. This plan A stuff is hard. My Giver is tired.

This is NOT Plan A:

When she was done (a pause of several minutes where others talked) I asked her how she couldn't have felt equal with all of my efforts to get her involved...

This would have been Plan A:

When she was done (a pause of several minutes where others talked) I told her how sorry I was that she felt that way, and would make it my task to help her get up to speed in this area...

It ain't easy, dude, but it's necessary to be consistently a fount of EN supply.

She's encouraging me to ask questions so that she can fill in any blanks. How can I be a fountain of EN supply if I don't know what I'm doing wrong?

Oh, for crying out loud!

DUDE! She's a wayward ! NONE of what she wants you to do is likely to be what you should be doing.

This is a perfect example. How did following her lead work out for you, huh?

She's encouraging me to ask questions so that she can entangle the whole situation in her selfish, self-justifying horse-crap.

I have a question. If WW is committing love busters, how do you tell them that they are hurting you.

What you just said (did) hurts me.

I would like it if you would......
I would like it if you wouldn't.....

Getting this book for both of you to read will help as well.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html

Wow,

Could you post examples of these LBs? It's quite possible the answers will depend on WHAT she is doing to LB you. We could provide more exact responses for you.

For instance, if she is bad-mouthing you, calling you names. The best response I've heard given is you use the word OUCH and then you leave the room. It avoids the battle, let's them know you were hurt and that you are going to protect yourself from further harm by walking away. If they follow you and continue you give them a canned response. "I am more than happy to talk to you when you are calm and can be respectful. We can talk about this later when we both are ready to communicate that way.". Dr. Harley's Friends of Communication "Never communicate when you are angry.".

Be the lighthouse. End the madness.

Mr. alias, awesome post going to add that to my bag of canned responses! Wow, I agree you need to be more specific.

I guess because I have an unrelentingly ashamed, regretful, and ultimately sorrowful FWW who had zero withdrawal that I just cannot handle situations like yours.

Not more than 2 months ago your wife had what was going to be a child born of another man miraculously (FOR HER and you) unable to come to term. Did she forget that?? That day she not only ruined your marriage but almost that of a kid who in no way deserved such an existence???

I gave my wife but five freaking minutes to decide what she wanted, an animal with no class who bangs others' wives or me. I wouldnt tolerate any BS withdrawal, no sir, not after what I know took place under my nose. F-THAT. Sorry, but anything less than contrition and full-on adherence to making me whole would be met with a certain result that she knows full well.

Maybe my recovery is unique in this case? I dont believe that but perhaps it is.

WOW, I had but one thing that would have 100% derailed my recovery and that was if I found out she aborted or even lost a baby from OM. Not sure why I drew the line there, Im certainly no right-to-life person, but in my head allowing herself to get pregnant...I dont know, would be unforgivable. I dont think I ever wrote that in either of my threads at any time.

Youve been a model MB proponent as far I as I can tell and have endured much. And its still early on.

I understand how this program works with the "turn the other cheek" stuff when anger arise from the wayward, but at some point enough is enough.

Sometimes I think a WW wants a strong hand (not phsically EVER) but someone who rises to the level of the infraction and makes it known what the appropriate actions are for the recovery of the marriage.

Insulting or hurting or whatever she's doing to reduce Love Bank accts is not it.

Mike, I was trying to understand what you were suggesting (if anything).

I don�t think Dr Harley condones a "turn the other cheek" approach when it comes to LBs even in the case of being betrayed. Certainly what I suggested wasn�t a turning of the cheek but rather a method of changing the status quo to something healthier. If your spouse insults you, you could insult her back, you could just decide to end it (enough is enough) or you could find ways to change the M dynamic (WW or not). If WOW wants the M to work (which he does) then he�s going to have to learn some healthy M behaviors. Ones he probably doesn't have today. Not turn the other cheek but be the lighthouse to a better M.

You mentioned a strong hand. I can think of nothing stronger than a man being able to control his urge to fight back with anger or flee from the M (much easier than staying). To stand up and be the guy that is going to turn this M around and make it better than it ever was. That takes fortitude (x100 as a BS).

All that being said I myself wouldn�t be strong enough to stay. If I found out my W was cheating on me I�m quite certain I would just end it. Too much energy spent on someone who is just too broken to fix. Of course my M has/had been a struggle for a long time. I would expect her to do the same if the roles were reversed. Just my personal perspective on affairs.

I don�t know �. maybe I missed your point entirely and we are in agreement.

MB is not designed to trap anyone in a marriage that is not working.

To me, "turn the other cheek" implies an invitation to "hit me again" .... not the MB way.

Marriage at all costs?

We had another meeting with our pastors today. We discussed the LBs that she's been doing and she agreed to stop. The LBs were personal conversations with men that were not work related.

We agreed to schedule more UA time. At this point, the UA time has been sporadic because of long days and the 'need' for down time. We mostly watch TV after working out together and I suggested that watching TV doesn't count as UA time. Out pastor made some suggestions and we decided to follow them and schedule time to go out and focus on each other. Pastor also suggested that we start these dates by telling each other about the things that we think are going well.

One day at a time...

Have you read this?
The Critical Importance of Undivided Attention