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NeverGuessed,

It was her response. With a lot of attitude. I understand she has no sex drive but what I don't understand is the want or need to be close. The want or need to feel that connection or bond. That is the most upsetting thing to me.

I did not want to tell her how I was feeling about my needs not being met. It came up because I was trying to explain to her why I go on the couch or can't sleep at night. I am not trying to focus on my needs or her even meeting them. I should not have brought it up when I did. I wanted to build some kind of understanding on why I go and watch TV or play video games at night. Its not because I don't want to hold her or be in bed with her its just frustrating when she shows no interest in being with me or mad because I am just trying to deal with my own frustration.

One point I made to her was us spending time together Thursday evening when I got back from Florida. We went to dinner alone. talked all night went home and spent a lot of alone time together watching TV holding her. We go to bed and she is asleep within minutes. I feel that I did a very good job of meeting her needs. I don't think that I could have done any more. I questioned her about it when we had discussed this issue on Thursday and she just said that she just needs to continue to spend more time. I am just going to keep on giving it time. I don't want her to feel pressure or that she has to make love to me I want her to want to make love to me. I just don't know if that is possible no matter what I do.


KISS

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Originally Posted By: kiss
I feel that RQ is very distant right now. She says that I am doing a good job of meeting her needs but she has an issue with our UA time or the lack their of. I offer things to do or make suggestions on things to do and I get a o.k. lets do that and it goes no where. She seems to be in a huge low. I feeling that she is giving up. I don't see a lot of life in her. The energy is gone.

When I got back from Florida on Thursday it seemed really good. Since then not so much.


Have you considered that RQ might not know what a good job really looks like anymore? On a scale of 1 to ten with ten being perfect, she might be so used to you preforming at a 3 that a 4 gets you a thumbs up. But a 4 is not enough to get you above the romantic love threshold. It may take months and years of TENS to get you there. Are you prepared for that?

When we're doing a good job;

1) It's consistent (Months & years) not weeks
2) We know the target goals perfectly
3) We don't get out of bed just because we're not tired. We take advantage of snuggling, caressing and rubbing without any sexual intentions until we fall asleep too.
4) We have learned how to diffuse triggers rather than being the cause of their escalation.
5) We don't focus on our unmet needs at all, we focus 100% of our attention on meeting our spouses needs. This is part of #2
6) We build the habit of scheduling UA time every week
7) Etc.

I think you get the point.


Originally Posted By: Kiss
Friday RQ asked me if I would be o.k. with her going to her sister in laws house. I said that I was o.k. with it. I asked her to please don't talk bad about me or our relationship if she wasn't going to give me the same feedback when I ask how "we" are doing. I feel that she doesn't tell me things or how she is feeling. I feel that she gives me a false sense that things are good between us. She will then complain on her thread or to her sister in law about the same things that she will tell me is fine.


Part of Dr. H's program is radical honesty. This doesn't mean that she should lovebust you with all her complaints though. Sometimes having an outlet to complain about you is a GOOD thing, it means she's learning how to protect you. Giving her the permission to have that close of a friend is a good thing. We often encourage a spouse to RANT on their own threads to give them an outlet too. It's necessary at times! And it doesn't violate The PORH. Can you see where this can be helpful?


Originally Posted By: Kiss
We got in a discussion about the text from RQ sister in law to me that really bothered me. It was complaints about me. One of them being me falling asleep on the couch. I told her that I can't fall asleep at night. We go to bed and RQ falls asleep within minutes. I will be awake for hours so I go and watch t.v. and fall asleep. I told her that a lot of my issues are sexual frustration. I told her I would rather go watch tv then bother her or try to convince her to make love to me. We discussed my physical needs and the want to be close to her. She shows no interest or want. Always that she is tired or not in the mood.


I've heard this same thing from so many men it makes my head spin.

How many nights do you caress her back, rub her hair, spoon snuggle her, until you both fall asleep? WITHOUT any sexual intentions! Most men do not answer this honestly, because they don't know how to do these things without it leading to sexual advances. I learned that I need do this almost every night. Our SF usually happens at other times of the day. It works best that way as my wife falls asleep nearly as soon as her head hits the pillow. Although I do suffer from frequent insomnia, I stay in bed meeting her needs even while she sleeps....


Originally Posted By: Kiss
I asked her if she had any idea how many times we have made love so far this year. Her reaction wasn't good.


No kidding! Her response surprises you? Did she ask if you remember how many times you've snuggled her through the night?
Did she say, over 10 years, she could count it on both hands. and I mean that snuggles and caress were the attitudes you went to bed with.


Originally Posted By: Kiss
She told me that she doesn't feel the need to make love that it wasn't important to her. She then said that I should go and find my self another skank. I tried explaining to her that its not only the physical part but also the closeness and feeling connected to her.


My bet is that she doesn't feel close to you during SF, she feels used.



Originally Posted By: Kiss
I asked her how would she feel if she wanted to have time for intimate conversation and I kept responding to her that I was not interested in talking!


Can you see why you said this?.... Because you allowed your taker to exploit and manipulate her. It's become a withdraw on her love bank so often that she doesn't even notice the draining occurring anymore. And you wonder why she keeps crashing? Hitting low points? She thinks its just something wrong with her and you think it's because of your affair..... It's because you still don't know what you're doing! Right or Wrong,,,, You don't know what you're doing... But you can't afford the coaching, you don't like to read and you feel beat up on the forum.... What to do?


Originally Posted By: Kiss
We discussed this for probably 3 or 4 hours that night. It lead to a lot of the same feeling that I shouldn't have said anything and I should have kept quite. She said that I have offended her and put her down. She said that she has trouble because of bad memories and thoughts of the OW. I understand that but I don't know really how much that really has to do with it. It has always been a huge whole in our relationship. For years before the A we would go months with out being intimate. I would bet that we had years that you could count on your two hands how many times we where intimate.


I think I've covered this recurring theme in my last comments



Originally Posted By: Kiss
I don't want to hurt her or have her upset with me but it makes it hard to keep up with her needs and wants when their is such a void in our closeness. I told her that I would forget about it and not let it bother me as I don't want to put added pressure on our situation. I am trying to continue to focus on her needs and happiness but I can't get close to her and take care off her if she won't let me. How do I get her to let go of anger when I tell her my feelings or situation? It feels like their are always consequences!!


Until you understand Love Busters inside and out, you are a dangerous partner to communicate with.

You will never get close while thinking the MB Program is just a path to getting your own needs met.
The MB Program teaches how to deposit enough love units to restore Romantic Love. It's about love, romantic love!





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Originally Posted By: kiss
.... went home and spent a lot of alone time together watching TV holding her. We go to bed and she is asleep within minutes.


You may both think this is meeting a need??? But it's not.... TV doesn't count toward UA time. Next time ditch the TV! Go straight to bed and give her a full body massage with NO sexual advances. When is the last time you gave her caressing without feeling disappointed that sex wasn't part of the outcome? If you're like most, it's never happened... You must create an environment of true care, but first you must learn how to do this.

All you did by sitting on the couch and watching TV was prime the pump of Sleep....





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A while back, Tex on another thread complained that trying to keep another couple in line with the MB Program was like trying to herd cats. It may be that saucers of milk are needed at your domicile as well!

It was her response. With a lot of attitude. I did not want to tell her how I was feeling about my needs not being met.

Pony pucks! You wanted to tell her, but you were afraid to because you remain in the position, common to FWSs, of the "junior partner" in your own marriage.

With all the time you've spent here, you haven't learned that respectful complaint about treatment by the spouse is not only acceptable, but damned necessary. This should have been a quick, "RQ, that statement about your disregard of what you know to be an important part of married life, and an identified priority EN of mine, hurts me very much, and I believe will seriously affect our happiness if allowed to go unaddressed."

Instead, you dive into DJs and IBs to further drive the two of you apart:

DJ: I understand she has no sex drive but what I don't understand is the want or need to be close. K, you have no claim on knowing what RQ thinks or feels. You only have the right to react to what RQ says or does.

IB: Rather than address this issue correctly, you abandon the game, take your balls, and go to sleep on the couch. Permit the translation, "I can withdraw from you, RQ, as fast and as far as you can from me."

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NeverGuessed,

The DJ that you put down is not something that I am just saying on my own its what she has told me. I'm not passing judgement on her I was trying to justify why she doesn't want to be intimate.

KISS

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Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed
Rather than address this issue correctly, you abandon the game, take your balls, and go to sleep on the couch. Permit the translation, "I can withdraw from you, RQ, as fast and as far as you can from me."


Be honest, kiss. Wasn't that the message that you were really trying to convey to RQ?


Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2

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Kiss do you believe The Marriage Builders Program is what you need to follow in order to improve SF as well as your marriage or would you be better off just working it out alone with RQ?

In other words, can you figure this out without help from others?





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HerPapaBear,

No I don't think I can do this on my own. I do appreciate the feedback 100%. I don't always handle things in the right manner. You all do give me very good guidance and help me see my wrongs and the correct way to handle conflicts or hiccups that we have. I have a big problem conveying my issues and things I'm having trouble with RQ to her. I believe it's years of not wanting to say anything because I didn't want to rock the boat. I am now trying to follow the policy of radical honesty but I don't come across how I want to and have problems saying it the way I want it to come across. Also RQ isn't the most receptive either so I know that it is going to cause conflict no matter how it comes out. It's something we need to continue to work on together.

I should be posting here about the conflict and maybe I can get some feedback on how to present the issue to RQ. This way it doesn't come out all wrong as it always does.

KISS

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NorthernWood,

No its not the message I'm trying to relay. I have issues with not being able to stop bothering or convince her to be intimate. I get up to avoid getting her mad and pissed at me. I guess me getting up gets her mad and frustrated in a different way. So I need to learn not to have any expectations and learn how to be more intimate without it going to that level.

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I know about sexless marriages.
I was in one for 10 years.
Your method isn't working. I withdrew from my wife and focused on business and physical exercise because it was sexless.
Sex became a bad word and I felt like I was getting handouts from her on occasion.

It is very frustrating. I know.

That's why the MB program is worth trying.
But I wouldn't wait years as was suggested.
I would follow it for 6 months.
Come up with the money for the online program, email dr Harley for advice and post here daily for advice from people.

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Originally Posted By: kiss
NeverGuessed,

The DJ that you put down is not something that I am just saying on my own its what she has told me. I'm not passing judgement on her I was trying to justify why she doesn't want to be intimate.

KISS


Here's the trick, KISS; disrespectful judgments are a double-edged sword. Even if you do not express them to RQ (which would withdraw from your LB$ account with her), making an assumption this way can also withdraw units from her account with you. Even worse, this withdrawal happens without her knowledge or consent!

It is not our job to guess how/what our spouse thinks or feels, and doing so is only an invitation to pain.



She doesn't want to be intimate because she's last on your list of things to do, and when her time comes... you want SF.


Women don't typically find that very appealing. Trust me. They don't even find it appealing when it is them putting their husbands last on their list.


UA time, KISS. This program does not work without UA time. Period.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Kiss there are 4 INTIMATE EN's - you think there is just one.

Do the two of you know about and meet these other intimate EN's or are they just as starved as your SF EN?

BTW, How often does RQ climax during SF? Is it worth her effort to engage in SF? If there is no climax for her, then she'll feel used and dislike SF even more.

The worst part of SF is that it's a HUGE trigger now thanks to your affair..... That's why recovery from an affair is so tough.
If you think you had SF issues before, they are now quadrupled due to your A. Your affair didn't just add a small roadblock, HellNo, you blew up the roadway with an A-Bomb. Now you're getting uptight that she can't seem to get across a blown up road at the pace you expect.

Are you getting any of this?

Are you going to be offering any replies to the other posts over the past two days?


Last edited by HerPapaBear; 03/11/13 03:25 PM.




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HerPapaBear,

We are going to sign up for the online course. I just applied for a credit card yesterday. It said it would take 7-10 business days to get. When I receive it the first thing we are doing is signing up.

I will post our schedule for the week tonight when RQ get home.

I have been listening to the radio programs. I have listened to the last three. I need to get back in the habit of doing it everyday.

I do notice a difference in RQ but it's not even day by day its more or less a bad day or two every week or two. It's mostly when my work schedule sucks and I don't get to spend time with her for a couple of days. I think that my own lack of seeing her plays into it also. I don't feel as close or that comfort. It's awful how quick you can lose that close feeling.

KISS

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Originally Posted By: kiss


We are going to sign up for the online course. I just applied for a credit card yesterday. It said it would take 7-10 business days to get. When I receive it the first thing we are doing is signing up.

KISS


Hi Kiss.

Taffy and I just started the course. It is great, even this early on. Sooooo many posters here told me that this was the thing that really got them "over the hump". The accountability coach, and the framework of being required to do the exercises in a scheduled way, will be the thing that makes the difference for us. That and lots of practice. And the access to Dr. H directly.

See you there!


Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
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A credit card?
I wouldn't take out a loan for that.
Didn't you just come out of bankruptcy and foreclosure?

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Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
A credit card?
I wouldn't take out a loan for that.
Didn't you just come out of bankruptcy and foreclosure?


It is a better long term investment than allowing the marriage to continue to dissolve and head into divorce.


I wouldn't just take a loan out for it if my marriage were in dire straits, I'd sell a freakin' kidney for it.


Then again, I value my marriage that much.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
A credit card?
I wouldn't take out a loan for that.
Didn't you just come out of bankruptcy and foreclosure?


It is a better long term investment than allowing the marriage to continue to dissolve and head into divorce.


I wouldn't just take a loan out for it if my marriage were in dire straits, I'd sell a freakin' kidney for it.


Then again, I value my marriage that much.


LIKE

It's only money. Besides, it would cost a lot more for BOTH RQ and Kiss if they were to allow their marriage to tank and get a divorce.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
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Personal R in works
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Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

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PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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Originally Posted By: HerPapaBear
Kiss there are 4 INTIMATE EN's - you think there is just one.

Do the two of you know about and meet these other intimate EN's or are they just as starved as your SF EN?

BTW, How often does RQ climax during SF? Is it worth her effort to engage in SF? If there is no climax for her, then she'll feel used and dislike SF even more.

The worst part of SF is that it's a HUGE trigger now thanks to your affair..... That's why recovery from an affair is so tough.
If you think you had SF issues before, they are now quadrupled due to your A. Your affair didn't just add a small roadblock, HellNo, you blew up the roadway with an A-Bomb. Now you're getting uptight that she can't seem to get across a blown up road at the pace you expect.

Are you getting any of this?




Don't be blowing by this post.... Please reply!





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Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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...if my marriage were in dire straits, I'd sell a freakin' kidney for it.

? ?

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consistently inconsistent .......





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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