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Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
RQ your methods aren't working.
Neither are KISS methods.
Is The reason why is because you both have terrible taste in music?
Or is the reason because you both are not following dr Harley's guidelines?

How many hours are you two spending in UA time this week?
Have you both POJA how the time will be spent to you both enjoy it?
Watching television does not count

Hey! I don't have terrible taste in music. I have a very varied taste in music and even Kiss grows on you after you listen to it a lot. lol.

As far as the hours, see my previous post. It really does need to be planned out for us in order for it to happen. This past weekend, we pretty much did nothing. I was pretty depressed all weekend and just did housework and spent time with the kids.

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I think I understand why recovery is so hard. It's because of the pressure to get the marriage right this time. It's because you know what could happen if a spouse is unhappy. Before, you were naive about things. You didn't think much about hubby staying late at work, or about him sleeping on the couch. You didn't see a big deal that you hadn't heard from him in awhile. You kept going with your life and keeping up with work and kids and feeling resentful cause you were doing it alone most of the time.

But now, well NOW you know what you were doing wrong and NOW you know what you need to do. And now you have that fear that if you screw up, it will happen again.

Sigh. They were right, recovery is hard and NOW I know why!

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
I think I understand why recovery is so hard. It's because of the pressure to get the marriage right this time. It's because you know what could happen if a spouse is unhappy. Before, you were naive about things. You didn't think much about hubby staying late at work, or about him sleeping on the couch. You didn't see a big deal that you hadn't heard from him in awhile. You kept going with your life and keeping up with work and kids and feeling resentful cause you were doing it alone most of the time.

But now, well NOW you know what you were doing wrong and NOW you know what you need to do. And now you have that fear that if you screw up, it will happen again.

Sigh. They were right, recovery is hard and NOW I know why!

It's true, RQ: you know the stakes - and in knowing them - you know you both have to step up your game. You just have to take that into the positive realm instead of the negative one. Knowing that your marriage, when utilizing the right formula, can be incredible is awfully empowering! Mistakes will be made, of course, but if you stick to it, most of the time, success is pretty hard not to come by. Isn't that reassuring??? smile

Yes, I know that might sound a bit Pollyanna. I just think it's important to look at the flipside so you aren't living with this frozen in fear mindset.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
..... I just think it's important to look at the flipside so you aren't living with this frozen in fear mindset.

I'd agree. Working the MB Program out of fear will never work! Fear will destroy you.....





Recovery began 10/07;

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
I think I understand why recovery is so hard. It's because of the pressure to get the marriage right this time. It's because you know what could happen if a spouse is unhappy. Before, you were naive about things. You didn't think much about hubby staying late at work, or about him sleeping on the couch. You didn't see a big deal that you hadn't heard from him in awhile. You kept going with your life and keeping up with work and kids and feeling resentful cause you were doing it alone most of the time.

But now, well NOW you know what you were doing wrong and NOW you know what you need to do. And now you have that fear that if you screw up, it will happen again.

Sigh. They were right, recovery is hard and NOW I know why!

Recovery seems hard because you are not following a plan. You and kiss spend less than 15 hours a week together and when you do spend time together, you both deliver all kinds of disrespectful judgments, have angry outbursts, practice independent behavior. There is no way you will feel better when the minimal time together is making love bank withdrawals.

Dr. Harley says that when there is resentment, it is a sign that recovery has not occurred. I was amazed by the truth of that. When H and I recovered our marriage, the resentment dissapated. The interesting thing is now you have an awareness when your husband is unhappy. Having that awareness and empathy (or do you like it when he is miserable) is a step towards making him (and you) happy and in love.

If followed, both of you would benefit from the online program. I know for my H and me, following the MB program saved our marriage and made it better than ever. I hope you and kiss decide to start it soon.

AM



BW - 70
WH - 65
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H broke contact 11/1/09
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Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
I think I understand why recovery is so hard. It's because of the pressure to get the marriage right this time. It's because you know what could happen if a spouse is unhappy. Before, you were naive about things. You didn't think much about hubby staying late at work, or about him sleeping on the couch. You didn't see a big deal that you hadn't heard from him in awhile. You kept going with your life and keeping up with work and kids and feeling resentful cause you were doing it alone most of the time.

But now, well NOW you know what you were doing wrong and NOW you know what you need to do. And now you have that fear that if you screw up, it will happen again.

Sigh. They were right, recovery is hard and NOW I know why!

It's true, RQ: you know the stakes - and in knowing them - you know you both have to step up your game. You just have to take that into the positive realm instead of the negative one. Knowing that your marriage, when utilizing the right formula, can be incredible is awfully empowering! Mistakes will be made, of course, but if you stick to it, most of the time, success is pretty hard not to come by. Isn't that reassuring??? smile

Yes, I know that might sound a bit Pollyanna. I just think it's important to look at the flipside so you aren't living with this frozen in fear mindset.

SunnyD, that is exactly what I meant, that this time the stakes are high.

I have to let go of the fear of making mistakes and beating myself up about them and instead see them as a way to learn.

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Originally Posted by armymama
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
I think I understand why recovery is so hard. It's because of the pressure to get the marriage right this time. It's because you know what could happen if a spouse is unhappy. Before, you were naive about things. You didn't think much about hubby staying late at work, or about him sleeping on the couch. You didn't see a big deal that you hadn't heard from him in awhile. You kept going with your life and keeping up with work and kids and feeling resentful cause you were doing it alone most of the time.

But now, well NOW you know what you were doing wrong and NOW you know what you need to do. And now you have that fear that if you screw up, it will happen again.

Sigh. They were right, recovery is hard and NOW I know why!

Recovery seems hard because you are not following a plan. You and kiss spend less than 15 hours a week together and when you do spend time together, you both deliver all kinds of disrespectful judgments, have angry outbursts, practice independent behavior. There is no way you will feel better when the minimal time together is making love bank withdrawals.

Dr. Harley says that when there is resentment, it is a sign that recovery has not occurred. I was amazed by the truth of that. When H and I recovered our marriage, the resentment dissapated. The interesting thing is now you have an awareness when your husband is unhappy. Having that awareness and empathy (or do you like it when he is miserable) is a step towards making him (and you) happy and in love.

If followed, both of you would benefit from the online program. I know for my H and me, following the MB program saved our marriage and made it better than ever. I hope you and kiss decide to start it soon.

AM

Actually, AM, I respectfully disagree. Recovery is hard because we are trying to follow the program. It is not easy finding 15 hrs to spend together, it's not easy to find something to do with that 15 hours, it's not easy breaking bad habits, it's not easy to stop being independent, it's not easy to realize when you are saying a dj (in fact I can't see why you say that I deliver dj's and ao's, so forth and so on.

However,I know that we have to make these changes if we want our marriage to recover.

Anyway, our UA time together next week should be about 15 hrs and the following week look to be about 11. Although, that is Kiss's spare time. So how does he fit in FC time to spend with his kids?

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Originally Posted by armymama
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
I think I understand why recovery is so hard. It's because of the pressure to get the marriage right this time. It's because you know what could happen if a spouse is unhappy. Before, you were naive about things. You didn't think much about hubby staying late at work, or about him sleeping on the couch. You didn't see a big deal that you hadn't heard from him in awhile. You kept going with your life and keeping up with work and kids and feeling resentful cause you were doing it alone most of the time.

But now, well NOW you know what you were doing wrong and NOW you know what you need to do. And now you have that fear that if you screw up, it will happen again.

Sigh. They were right, recovery is hard and NOW I know why!

Recovery seems hard because you are not following a plan. You and kiss spend less than 15 hours a week together and when you do spend time together, you both deliver all kinds of disrespectful judgments, have angry outbursts, practice independent behavior. There is no way you will feel better when the minimal time together is making love bank withdrawals.

Dr. Harley says that when there is resentment, it is a sign that recovery has not occurred. I was amazed by the truth of that. When H and I recovered our marriage, the resentment dissapated. The interesting thing is now you have an awareness when your husband is unhappy. Having that awareness and empathy (or do you like it when he is miserable) is a step towards making him (and you) happy and in love.

If followed, both of you would benefit from the online program. I know for my H and me, following the MB program saved our marriage and made it better than ever. I hope you and kiss decide to start it soon.

AM

Actually, AM, I respectfully disagree. Recovery is hard because we are trying to follow the program. It is not easy finding 15 hrs to spend together, it's not easy to find something to do with that 15 hours, it's not easy breaking bad habits, it's not easy to stop being independent, it's not easy to realize when you are saying a dj (in fact I can't see why you say that I deliver dj's and ao's, so forth and so on.

However,I know that we have to make these changes if we want our marriage to recover.

Anyway, our UA time together next week should be about 15 hrs and the following week look to be about 11. Although, that is Kiss's spare time. So how does he fit in FC time to spend with his kids?

It takes a conscious effort to change behavior until it becomes a habit. It starts with the UA time. If you cannot find a way to consistently carve out PLEASANT UA time (avoiding lovebusters), recovery will be hard, if not impossible. My H and I struggled for a long time. When we began the program in earnest, we tracked our UA time for 84 consective weeks. It felt very clinical and was a nuisance to do the recordkeeping. What we found, though, was that anytime our UA time dipped below 15 hours for the week, we both felt bad.

I have read both yours and kiss's threads and in my opinion, you BOTH have plenty of lovebusters to eliminate.

AM


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WH - 65
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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Anyway, our UA time together next week should be about 15 hrs and the following week look to be about 11. Although, that is Kiss's spare time. So how does he fit in FC time to spend with his kids?

RQ,

It's a waste of time if you both will not commit to a MINIMUM of 15 - 20 + hours every week.

The kids time is scheduled AFTER your 15-20 hrs of UA time is scheduled and achieved.






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I can gain you 1.5 hours per day of UA time, if you are willing to put in the effort. DRIVE KISS TO WORK! AND PICK HIM UP!

If you want to make excuses, start now! If you want to save your marriage, DO IT!

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Um, NG, I work as well, so that is not possible.

I didn't come on here to make excuses but was rather just reflecting on how I felt about things. Thank you all for pointing out that it is obvious that this program will not work for us.




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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Um, NG, I work as well, so that is not possible.

I didn't come on here to make excuses but was rather just reflecting on how I felt about things. Thank you all for pointing out that it is obvious that this program will not work for us.


think


There are a lot of changes inherent in adapting a wreck of a marriage into the model of successful marriages. We have a lot of ingrained cultural issues that people believe and propogate that are sooooo destructive to marriage.


Blind trust, time apart, girls/boys night out, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and on and on and on.

But... you know better. Those tropes lead your marriage down a path of destruction.


It sucks hitting the electric fence. It hurts.


RQ; you are not the woman you were 6 months ago, let alone 6 years or beyond.


I'm reminded of an AMWAY sales pitch I was drug to by a coworker when I worked in grocery. Part of the pitch was for an opportunity to bear fruit, you must WORK with it. You couldn't simply buy their sales kit, put it under your bed, and expect to be successful.

I didn't buy in... but... that still makes sense.

This program won't work if you put the books in the closet. It's a plan, not a magic pill.



"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
..... Thank you all for pointing out that it is obvious that this program will not work for us.

RQ,

That's just NOT true!

The Program WILL work for you.....

What won't work is holding on to old ideas and old ways of doing things.

The Program itself is NOT the obstacle for success. It's the way we choose to work it!


No one here is against you! We want to see you succeed.

When we point out the obvious roadblocks to you, it's just that...... We want you to clearly see the roadblocks.

If you were driving down the road and hit a "road closed" sign, would you sit there and just wait for the road to re-open or find another path to get where you're going?
Of course, you'd find another path!
That's what we are trying to share with you when we point out the obvious roadblocks that we see, OK..... We don't want to see you sitting at the roadblock, waiting, when there is another route!






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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
I can gain you 1.5 hours per day of UA time, if you are willing to put in the effort. DRIVE KISS TO WORK! AND PICK HIM UP!

If you want to make excuses, start now! If you want to save your marriage, DO IT!

The forum is full of married couples that have UA time.
An "I can't do it" attitude won't work!

Wouldn't it benefit your kids to be raised by parents that were in love with each other and show love to each other?

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Another element here is that when you constantly feel you are falling short with no way to measure up in sight - it is awfully exasperating. It always helps me to find some way to feel H and I are at least in control of the situation and working towards getting there.

A perfect example of this is PA and weight. Obviously a person can't drop 50 lbs in a few weeks to be more attractive spouse. It can be planned though - and worked towards so that he/she gets there. Having a nutrition/exercise program in place to get there makes both parties feel better.

UA time is just so important to create the bond between a couple that's needed that it's harped on - and for good reason.

I agree - you are not the same woman you were 6 months ago! A year from now you will be better still...


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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oh RQ, i feel badly that you are so frustrated.

you already KNOW MB can work for your M. is it fear of success that keeps you both from using it? people can be just as fearful of things going well as they do that things will go badly. but you two really need to shake off the inertia and get this ball rolling, with BOTH of you pushing.

does kiss put you off when you make suggestions that would help you guys get into recovery? or do you believe yourself that his putting off is actually reasonable? i think that you agree with his assertions that certain steps just can't be done right now.

RQ, there's not much you can do if kiss, actually, both of you aren't going to get radical and make the changes you need to make if your M is to survive. as unwritten put it, it's time to poop or get off the pot. (or was it WPG?) you've been attempting for far too long, and at too great a cost to you and your M.

sometimes, you've just gotta accept the fact that you cannot hold off all the worrying consequences (if he leaves his job we'll go broke, we can't ask our families for even MORE help/support, etc) and JUST DO IT. once you've accepted that the "worst" is going to happen (yes, you are going to be poor. yes, your family may balk at even more help for an M they [apparently] consider "unworthy, yes, you may have to put your relatives aside for a while), you can finally start to grow. and surprisingly, instead of drowning in all those things, the load will lighten and you will feel such relief!

the fact of the matter is that your current lifestyle makes recovery impossible, and it's not just kiss's job, though that is part of the problem for meeting UA time. you know that if you wait much longer, you're not going to survive long enough to get to the "we're going to start working the programme ... when we XXX."

i would love to see you both put your M at the first and foremost - hey let's get really radical and make it the ONLY! - item on your list.

i'm sorry to be so bold and blunt. hug


fBW 49
xWH 55
DD 22
DDay 6/07
D 8/15
Letting Go
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The conditions that made KISS's affair possible still exist; his obscene work hours.

Until the job compliments the marriage, recovery will be neighboring impossible.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
The conditions that made KISS's affair possible still exist; his obscene work hours.

Until the job compliments the marriage, recovery will be neighboring impossible.

Exactly my point, thank you

Last edited by Rocketqueen; 03/19/13 07:47 AM.
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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
The conditions that made KISS's affair possible still exist; his obscene work hours.

Until the job compliments the marriage, recovery will be neighboring impossible.

Exactly my point, thank you

Well who is responsible for that?
Under the POJA you BOTH are!
I suggest you email Dr Harley and make yourself AND Kiss available to speak to him at the same time.

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Sorry RQ....

I've been trying to engage your H but it's been futile.

In his posts I've learned; He's not to blame (he's only done what any man would have done that was sex starved), you can't get over it (whatever "it" is), he's a great sexual partner (no issues with his making love), and he can't get you on board with the program (you are only doing what you've always done,which he feels is "nothing")....

Kinda sums it up so far!

The only difference now is; ??? I don't know, is there any difference in him?

Well it appears he's better at gas lighting now that he knows "tid bits" of the MB Program, that's for sure.....






Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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