Any thoughts of doing a Plan B? Or are you going straight to Plan D?



Is this something you've discussed with him? What are his responses when you are radically honest with him about his behaviors?

Mr. Alias, could you please explain plan b and also share the link. I searched for it once and couldn't find it.

Yes, Mr. Alias, I was radically honest about how I feel our marriage is not number one, and I would not put up with being anything less than that. He seems to deny that he's neglecting our marriage or just say he's working on improving the marriage as if he expects me to accept being number 10 why he drags his feet about making "Us a priority.

I simply think my spouse is "narcissistic." He has not only been neglectful to me in the marriage, but also to our son in many ways. His first love has been "his music." So after discussing both situations with him, and I do believe his mom said something to him in regards to our son, he has a new plan now. Still his music #1, but he is improving in being more involved with our son, but he continues to neglect the marriage and check this out, and he tries to overindulge our son and disrespects me in the process.

Honestly, it's a point in a women's heart, where she says, you know what, enough is enough. I've only been married 3.5 years and I could write a book about the emotional abuse that I took in our blended family.

I know a lot was just said. Thanks so much for listening and the help along the way.

No, my next step is separation. Unless I discover now or later that he has committed adultery, I wouldn't file for divorce. As it stands now, my desire is to be free from the emotional abuse and be in a healthier environment.

This will help you with the separation.
How to Plan B Correctly

Also, have you thought about emailing the Harleys?

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

Thanks BH. I could only find a link under Notable Posts for Plan B as it relates to a wayward.

GD, It is often hard to grasp context sometimes when reading threads of other posters. I certainly empathize with you. It is a horrible feeling to live in a hurtful M.

You may have a long road to hoe in trying to change the dynamics of your M if your H exhibits self indulgent behavior. But it can be done.

While you can continue to study and make attempts you may continue to struggle. Here is a link that gives an overview of what you can do on your own. Dr Harley�s books do a more thorough job of explaining these concepts. �Fall in Love Stay In Love� may be a helpful book for you.

How One Spouse Can Lead the other Back to Intimacy

I often find your best option is to talk to one of the Harleys. They�ve experienced so many of these marital situations. They always have a very sound, workable solution to each and every marital problem. Yours is no exception.

Have you considered the phone counseling? Dr Chalmers (Dr Harley�s daughter) or his son Steve are both excellent counselors. My W and I did phone counseling with Dr. Chalmers. She was great and helped us get back on track.

Even if your H doesn't want to go it will be helpful to you.

Here is another link that may help give you some hope regarding your H's behaviors. He can change ... you just need to find the key that helps him want to.

Instincts and Habits

The Harleys will help you find that key.

Can you explain how these two tie? He disrespects you because he's spending time with your son (which is something you wanted).

I have no doubt you are hurting and I'm sure enough is enough. All I would ask is that you try to understand that you and your H were running your M without a mutual plan. It has been mentioned recently ... MB is a solid plan, a recipe if you will, but it is a recipe that has to be executed as documented and in its entirety in order for it to work. Each part of Dr Harley's plan is there for a reason.

If you were to walk away from this M wouldn�t you like to say you implemented a very solid, workable solution to the M issues? What you will learn from the Harleys are things you will take with you, assuming this M will end.

The Harleys will help your H understand what is in it for him to participate in its policies and if you were to sign up, for say the online counseling, he�d be held accountable for his part.

Do you and your H understand the Policy of Joint Agreement and try to follow it? Do you either of you know how to negotiate in your M?

Sorry for the confusion. Here's a simple example:
We have set up rules for our son. Here are real life simple examples:
Example: We agree on a bedtime of 10:30a.m.

Come home and son still up at 12am.

Me to the husband: Why is son still up pass bed time?

Husband: I just let him stay up. (So no respect for what we agreed on at all. More concern about pleasing our son)

Me to the husband: okay (and nothing more b/c I realize he's trying to undermine me and I'm just letting it go) He will reap the fruits of doing so)

Example #2:
Background I told son to wash the dishes.(Came home ,no dishes wash)

Me to my husband: Why didn't our DS wash the dishes?

Husband: Oh, I didn't tell him. I just said to myself, I'll do it in the morning.

Me to my husband: Well, I told our DS to wash the dishes, and he's old enough to know and remember his chores.

Husband (with attitude) and changing the emphasis to me versus reminding our son of being responsible

Husband to[b] me:[/b] You should have let me know (mind you, we already have agreement about our son having chores (washing dishes) and our son being responsible to remember it or losing his behavior bucks)

Overall, my husband may agree with me in private that we should discipline our son if he does something wrong in school for example. However, when it comes time to deliver, he changes his mind on the spot and turns against me in the process of us "supposedly" giving the consequences right in front of our son.

GD,

And here is where the POJA is so key in your M. It is obvious he agrees because he knows it pleases you and probably knows it is the right thing to do but he obviously isn't enthusiastic about having to be the guy to hold the line with your son.

I agree your H isn't showing you the respect you expect based on your agreement. But I do not believe in any way shape or form he is doing it to undermine you or intentionally disrespect you.

Your response should be to discuss the POJA not in an accusatory way. "We agreed to do this. But you did something different. I'm thinking our agreement isn't working for you. Can you help me to come to a better agreement? One that you would be enthusiastic about following.�

End of the day if he says the agreement is fine then you need to figure out what the consequences are for him not following the agreement. But I would definitely lose the idea that he is purposely trying to disrespect you. That isn�t human nature. More so it is he doesn�t see the benefit to him in following the agreement.

Does your H know and understand what POJA is? Have you discussed this concept with him?

So right Mr A! POJA does not come naturally to any of us.

Well, at least for those of us that don�t have both a healthy Giver and a healthy Taker. Which is about 99% of the population �. Just a rough figure I�m tossing out there � I have no stats to validate this.

Well at least I'm one of the crowd :-)

Yes, we were both introduced to the POJA in the book Lovebusters. However, he has a tendency to not practice new tools long enough to become a part of his behavior. I guess he's not motivated too.
However, I hold him responsible to keep his word and to be honest. He knows how I feel about this and I take "my word" seriously. To me, it shows a lack of character to "say one thing" and do the other.

Are you motivated? Do you want things to get better? Then I suggest you take the bull by the horns and implement the concepts here and be the one to ensure you continue down the MB path.

I want you to experience what I experience in you. This isn't a criticism. Just an observation of something that may seem foreign to you.

You are frustrated with your H. It comes out in your criticisms of him. In our posts we�re trying to direct you to what you can do to improve your situation and you then turn to point the finger at him. He�s not here. We can�t help him change. But we can certainly help you change the dynamics of your M. Just keep in mind how you have to change to improve things may be extremely foreign to you seeing you have learned behaviors that feel normal to you. You have to be open to seeing these and trying new things. If you continue to point the finger at him we�ll get nowhere.

The fact he isn�t �into� POJA isn�t the problem. The problem is no one is stepping up and being the leader in ensuring what you�ve learned or are trying to learn is continued in your M. You�re here. We�re asking you to step up.

Mr. Alias, no offense taken. I do appreciate the help that's been given to me. At this point, I am not not motivated to invest more in the relationship due to the continual onesidedness that I've endured. Someone asked the question about the POJA so I just shared the answered.

Honestly, I am more in the preparation to move forward phase.

Well certainly moving forward is one of your options. For whatever reason ( God�s plan or not) you ended up on this forum and the one thing we as posters all try to educate those looking for help is that this program works. If you implement it, the entire program. The trouble is you�re withdrawn and you�ve been the one educating your H. That�s a recipe for disaster. You�ve made attempts to implement some parts because you and him read a portion of Dr. Harley�s books. But that was just one very small piece. For the rest of the pieces you�ve tried to implement you�ve been his coach or teacher. And even that didn�t cover all the areas of the program.

I�m sure that isn�t easy to swallow. Trust me I know how that feels. I had to eat crow big time because I was fed that same line but some great people here who I just didn�t want to listen to � because I had HAD ENOUGH. I had to eat crow because they were right.

So, while I agree, if you haven�t the strength to continue I don�t begrudge you. However, I wouldn�t agree that you�ve tried everything and that God is trying to sell you that. You have tried this program. You did as I did for over 10 years which was try to implement bits and pieces and almost all of it on your own.

For 10 years I came here to this forum seeking advice and trying to implement what was taught to me. In those 10 years I never bought a book by Dr Harley (after all her and I read the 5 love languages� what more would we need ?). I never asked my W to read any of his books. We never got any help from an MB counselor. And in 10 years little bits changed but I was still very unhappy and end up extremely withdrawn from my W. Her and I just weren�t clicking. My #1 EN always ended up as her last priority. I felt extremely hurt and time was wasting away.

Then as a last stitch effort (because I was tired of trying to coast until the children had moved on) I asked my W if she�d join me in MB counseling and that I feared we weren�t going to last much longer. She agreed. And everything changed from there �.

That could be you.

In doing the counseling you will both learn HOW TO IMPLEMENT THIS PROGRAM IN ITS ENTIRETY. Your H will be held accountable so long as he continues to show up.

I encourage to reconsider moving on and instead ask you to move forward by getting both of you doing this program. If he won�t go the counselors are really good at getting reluctant spouses on board. You could start by having session by yourself. Once your H participates they will expose your H to the two kinds of resentment, expose him to what care and protection of the marriage really means (which are things he needs to understand BIG TIME).

In the meantime if he continues with his poor behaviors they could help you with a Plan B which can work even if there is no infidelity.