My needs for SF, affection, conversation and recreation were not being met. I was indirectly offering to meet her need for domestic support in exchange for her meeting my needs. I was trying to barter rather than offering gifts. I'd especially whine and nag about the lack of SF until she gave in. Which was bad for both of us. My behavior was both annoying and selfish. That's what I meant by being emotionally needy. Actively withdrawing love units and not making sufficient deposits.

She would have angry outbursts and take independent action.

Ok, I get it. Instead of her learning how to effectively meet your needs, she accused you of being "needy" and punished you for it. You have a rightful expectation to get your needs met in marriage. That is what we get married FOR. Sex is usually a man's #1 need.

HOWEVER, in order to effectively meet that need a woman needs 2 things: an emotional attachment to the man and the prospect of enjoyment. I suspect she fell out of love with you and it became a nasty chore to try to meet your SF need.

If you follow this program and she falls back in love with you, this won't be a problem anymore. If you just explain to her what happened, ie: that she fell out of love and that is why she didn't want to have sex, and that you have a plan to overcome this, I suspect she will relax about it.

Check out this article: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5047_qa.html

But I would let her know that you do expect to have your needs met in your marriage, but you also understand that she wasn't doing a good job in the past because you had fallen out of love.


And I would ask her to fill out these questionaires:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4506_mpa.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4502_lbq.html

Offering to meet her needs in an reciprocated manner is what Dr Harley calls "sacrifice" which is terrible for marriage.

"The concept of unconditional love in marriage usually refers to a spouse�s lifelong commitment to care for the other spouse regardless of what the other spouse does. I�m in favor of a lifelong commitment to care regardless of unfavorable circumstances (health problems, financial setbacks, and other factors outside a couple�s control that can negatively impact a marriage). But I�m opposed to a lifelong commitment to care for a spouse when that spouse makes marriage-wrecking choices. It tends to give such people unrealistic expectations of entitlement�that they should be cared for, regardless of their willingness to care in return. Neglect and abuse characterize many marriages based on unconditional love." here Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders

Thanks, MelodyLane for helping me clarify my language and for the links to the questionnaires. I gave her the love busters one last night, but I wasn't sure about overwhelming her with a whole workbook.

I've got some homework to do this weekend, putting together a plan to present her with when I move back in.

I'll keep you all posted and thanks, everyone!

I would start with Surviving an Affair and use the workbook, Five Steps to Romantic Love. Follow the program in the book.

The MOST IMPACTFUL thing you can do would be to RELIGIOUSLY follow the policy of undivided attention. If you will follow that for several weeks, you will both fall in love again. If you don't do that, then this program will not work.

Ask any married person who is in love on this forum if they can skip this step and see what they tell you. They will all tell you the same thing: it doesn't work without this step.

I would get that workbook and tear out the UA time worksheet out of the back and make several copies. Sit down once a week with your wife and schedule 20+ hours per week of UA time going on dates ALONE. [15 hours per week to maintain love and 20+ hrs to create] The Policy of Undivided Attention

Dr Harley used to refuse to counsel couples who would not commit to the UA time when he was in active practice:

You have a right to these needs. Don't feel guilty for having them. If anything, your WW is partially at fault for having a 'needy' husband, because you had needs she did not fulfill.

These behaviors can be corrected when both of you are on board with making your marriage your priority. You're going to have to kill the affair first, though.

I'm back in the house. I've ordered 2 copies of the 5 steps to romantic love workbook. My wife is writing and sending the final total separation letter to the OM today.

I'm experiencing a great deal of anxiety and have been constantly tempted to ask my wife for reassurance in the form of affection and/or SF. This is unfair because we are still working on plugging the holes in our love banks and working out how to avoid love busters. Not to mention meeting each others needs yet.

Any tips on staying patient?

Hold your breath for a long time. Eventually, you will pass out and the time will pass very quickly. She will see you are being very patient during this time

Seriously though, exercise and good breathing techniques help for staying patient. Exercising together expecially

Great on moving back.

I never went through recovery, so I won't have a lot of advice for you, but am really praying for you. But from what I have been through:

It is hard.
You have to lead this.
Make sure you plug up holes for any contact.
Make sure you plug up holes in your life and make changes.
Focus on the present and the future will take care of itself.

You have a chance that I have seen few BH's get. Take it from here and lead it back home, to better places than before and than you could have imagined a short time ago and maybe even now.

And also, prepare yourself for some setbacks, have a plan to address them. And be vigilant to make sure.

"Wife, maybe you cannot tell how anxious I feel. I would like a hug from you to help me calm down."

JUST ASK for a hug.
Do not kiss.

After the hug tell her how much you appreciate it.

Ask again for a HUG ONLY later in the day.

Good luck!

NDY, one suggestion by Dr Harley to really kick off reconcilation is to go on a vacation together. Would that be possible? Without kids, of course.

Can someone please post the recommended nc letter for him?

NDY, have you discussed the plan for recovery with her yet? In the area of capitulation to her whims, how would you rate yourself?

He has the book and NDY he should copy the letter that Sue wrote and you should mail it certified mail.
Don't let her mail a love letter to the guy (like my ex wife tried to do)

I've discussed the content of the NC letter with her, and yes, we're using the SAA NC letter Sue wrote as a reference. She doesn't want to show me the final version. Still working on her desire to keep secrets. I'm having a hard time convincing her that full-disclosure and radical honesty is necessary.

Yes I have presented the marriage recovery agreement from the back of the SAA. We sat down this morning and scheduled UA time for the week. The plan is to start with Love Busters worksheet after kids go to bed tonight.


Mel, on a scale of 0-10 where 0 is never capitulate and 10 is always capitulate, I was/am a 8.5

This is something I realize created quite a few problems and growing resentment between us. I have to stand up for my beliefs, so I can be a source of strength and a counter-balance for her.

You have to see it, or it may as well not be sent.

Do you want it to say, "I must sacrifice our love for the good of my children, blah blah" or some other such drivel.

She doesn't set the rules. You lead the way. Got it?

Thanks for the reminder. I need to lead the way.

I've asked her for an opportunity to review it before she sends it and she has agreed.

For where you are, that is the only advice I feel adequate to give.

You need to be the light, the MB expert. Chart the course.

Without going back and re-reading things, I will offer up this one thing:

Make sure you get all your questions answered one time, early. All of them. Then, don't bring it up. You have decided to recover. Don't go backwards, discussing the past specifics. There will be times you are triggered, when you feel low, that maybe you will need to work around and find a way with her to avoid, but what I mean is never use the past as a weapon. Never beat her up with it, use it as excuse for any behavior you have.

You had a chance to get out. You have decided to recover, and looks like she has too. You are all in now. Put this in the rear view, so far back that it is never to be seen again. Make a new, loving, safe marriage.

You have to actually physically put this in the post yourself. It is not just about reviewing the letter - it is about making sure it is in fact sent.

Do not let your WW post or email this! Do it yourself!

x2