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When we get married we will have been together 6 years. We were common law for several years down south, and at this point I believe we are both buyers.

I wish in many ways that we had gotten married sooner. I also wish I had been a better woman and grew up quicker and became an adult earlier in our relationship, it would have saved a lot of heartache.

I've got the best man in the world. wink

We spent a while last night reading through this thread, lots of good info. Thanks Pep!


Me: 30
Him: 39
Together 5 years
Married the very best man in the world 04/06/2013 after being common law for too long. I'm a lucky woman.
7 Cats - Viscount Ashley of Leftfield, Pawkie Petunia, The Timinator, Leo the Lionheart, Fruit Snack, Cloud, and Barret
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In the book Dr. Harley states that the Renter relationship can't be sustained for long, because the taker comes out eventually and ruins things. That's why I thought the question was pertinent to the discussion of the book.

I suppose it depends on the nature of the two people involved i.e. how long it takes them to get their takers out, but was wondering if there was a recommended timeline where you wouldn't have to find that out, well assuming that you both become buyers at the time of the marriage.

I'm not interested in dating again.. hurts my head to think about it... besides I still have a marriage I am hoping to save. But in terms of advising others. I wouldn't have minded getting married at 21 (5 yrs dating) if our parents had been supportive. Water under the bridge, but I wondered for if I had to advise younger couples.


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Originally Posted By: HopefulNC
When we get married we will have been together 6 years. We were common law for several years down south, and at this point I believe we are both buyers.

I wish in many ways that we had gotten married sooner. I also wish I had been a better woman and grew up quicker and became an adult earlier in our relationship, it would have saved a lot of heartache.

I've got the best man in the world. wink

We spent a while last night reading through this thread, lots of good info. Thanks Pep!


Congratulations on your impending marriage!


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Originally Posted By: BetrayedP
In the book Dr. Harley states that the Renter relationship can't be sustained for long, because the taker comes out eventually and ruins things. That's why I thought the question was pertinent to the discussion of the book.



Thanks for the clarification. I understand what you are asking now.

Well, my understanding is that RENTERS can get along for awhile based on one or the other sacrificing needs to keep their mate happy. Sometimes known as "compromising". An occasional compromise probably does no real harm, but a pattern of compromise will cause harm. The problem, as described by Dr H, is that this sort of "rental agreement" creates an environment of incompatibility.

Renter agreements cause resentments and often lead to arguments with no solutions.

Thanks BetP. I appreciate you being patient with me.

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Originally Posted By: HopefulNC
When we get married we will have been together 6 years. We were common law for several years down south, and at this point I believe we are both buyers.

I wish in many ways that we had gotten married sooner. I also wish I had been a better woman and grew up quicker and became an adult earlier in our relationship, it would have saved a lot of heartache.

I've got the best man in the world. wink

We spent a while last night reading through this thread, lots of good info. Thanks Pep!


I would strongly encourage you counsel with the Harleys now and through the early parts of your marriage, since you are coming from a long renter relationship that involves lots of bad habits ... It is great you are getting married, but just to make sure you can beat the bad habits that were built you may want some extra accountability.

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Originally Posted By: WalkinForward


I would strongly encourage you counsel with the Harleys now and through the early parts of your marriage, since you are coming from a long renter relationship that involves lots of bad habits ... It is great you are getting married, but just to make sure you can beat the bad habits that were built you may want some extra accountability.



I appreciate the advice. If we counsel with anyone it will be the Harley's but I don't feel like we need that at this point.

We've most of the Harley books and several others discussed here. We are both buyers now, we follow POJA, PORH and while we've had some bumps in our road we're really solid right now. We have been legally married for most of the last 3 years, once Amendment One passed in NC and then our move to Ohio we are not at this point, but our lives are still combined (finances, accounts, cars in both name, shared health insurance, etc...).

We are rereading the Love Busters and the new book from the Passionate Marriage author (it's so much better written!).


Me: 30
Him: 39
Together 5 years
Married the very best man in the world 04/06/2013 after being common law for too long. I'm a lucky woman.
7 Cats - Viscount Ashley of Leftfield, Pawkie Petunia, The Timinator, Leo the Lionheart, Fruit Snack, Cloud, and Barret
And our very lucky pony, Starbucks
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On this topic, (I gave my copy of the BRF book away) do renters downgrade to freeloaders?
My wife had an affair and moved in with OM. we got divorced and she has lived with him for about 11 months.

I've "heard" (I have no contact with her) that their "relationship" has deteriorated and they are now living as "friends with benefits".

Am I correct that this is a downgrade from renter status to freeloader?

If so (my ex wife has never been able to keep a job) don't freeloaders expect each other to pay bills etc? She's living there rent free and he's a bumb on disability for alcoholism and craziness.

How long can freeloaders live together like this?

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Quote:

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doinf some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.


Unmarried cohabitation can last years. They do not have any expectations about each other, or the relationship. They both only do what they want to do. They are only responsible to themselves. They see nothing wrong with independent behavior, because they are unattached. If they don't want to do something, they don't. Since there are no expectations for extraordinary care from each other, this agreement can go on for quite awhile. Plus, when it does come to an end, there are usually no lingering regrets on either side. They "move on" carrying no guilt or remorse.

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Quote:
Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.

Buyers believe We are together for life.


This is essentially what we agree to when we say "I do".
"Until death parts us".

Quote:
Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.


"That's not fair!" grumble , is not a way to negotiate your way to a happy in-love marriage.
Fairness is often subjective. What may seem "fair" to one spouse might seem like a miserable situation to the other spouse.

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Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.

Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.


Needs do change over time. Life hands us difficult challenges. We adjust together.

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Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.

Buyers believe Criticism indicates a need for change.


When a RENTER listens to criticism, he/she asks himself/herself "Do I want to change?"
The BUYER asks himself/herself "How can I change to make my spouse/my marriage better?"


Quote:
Renters believe Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.

Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.


This one is usually the most difficult for MB newcomers to grasp.
Giving away your own needs to make your spouse happy, will create an imbalance within the marriage.
"I gave him everything he wanted." <~~~ A Renter's lament.



Quote:
Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.

Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary.


Short term fixes are short term. If you want a long term marriage .... go long.

Last edited by Pepperband; 03/16/13 10:26 AM.
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This is very interesting to me. Every time I revisit this discussion about BRF, I discover more ways to improve my own marriage behavior.
loveheart

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Originally Posted By: Dr Harley in BRF
"The real commitment of marriage is not a commitment to stay regardless of how you are treated. It's a commitment to care for each other regardless of the circumstances you find yourselves in."


This is where some people falter. Some people fail to grasp that MB does not advocate remaining in an abusive, unsafe, chronically uncaring marriage.
"For better, or for worse" does not give license to be ugly and mean to each other.

Originally Posted By: Dr Harley in BRF
"Marriage means that each spouse is commited to make a GREATER effort to care for each other than they were making BEFORE marriage, a GREATER effort to meet each other's intimate needs."


There is an "Ah-ha!" moment when a MB follower has the dawn of realization that meeting the needs of their spouse is very rewarding. It is a challenge, yes. But, it's a fun & creative dance2 challenge. MB asks us to open up our imaginations and "brainstorm" solutions. This is why lazy people do not do well with MB concepts. They *feel* that if a marriage requires WORK, then "We must not be soul-mates after all." banghead

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Originally Posted By: living_well

The trap people fall into is in thinking that this is 'true love' and can therefore last for ever but it can't. There comes a time when your taker re-emerges which is healthy because otherwise resentment would start to build.


I like livingwell's description, but I wanted to add that the "true love" does last using this program as long as renters tactics are abandoned. That is the whole purpose of being a buyer. "True love" does not last in a renters agreement because it is fraught with sacrifice which causes couples to fall out of love.

The result of this program is romantic love, which is "true love."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Why do married people have "big fights"?
What is really going on during a "huge argument"?

Quote:
... which brings us to POJA

which is adopting the Buyer's strategy

means you must consider both your interests ~and~ your partner's interests

up to the point of bilateral enthusiastic agreement

which means NO ONE sacrifices their happiness for the other's .... you seek mutual happiness


A marital fight/argument is one or both spouses making strained efforts to have their spouse see things differently.
What marital squabble ever ended in "mutual happiness"?

If you are fighting with your spouse, stop it.
There is no point to fighting.
Both spouses end up with hurt feelings.

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Originally Posted By: Pepperband
This is very interesting to me. Every time I revisit this discussion about BRF, I discover more ways to improve my own marriage behavior.
loveheart


ME TOO. smile I am amazed at how much my marriage has evolved over the years. One big difference is that we now are very careful to be "pleasant" during our UA time. No griping, venting, or unpleasant topics. At the end of our evenings, one of us will ask "was I pleasant tonight?" WE COMPETE to see who will be the most pleasant and charming. grin


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
WE COMPETE to see who will be the most pleasant and charming. grin


It is FUN too!
Keeping the marriage love bank full and over-flowing makes the difficult times in life much easier to endure.

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Originally Posted By: Pepperband

A marital fight/argument is one or both spouses making strained efforts to have their spouse see things differently.


It is incredibly disrespectful to try to make your spouse see things differently. It implies that your view is somehow superior.


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Mel, it is very interesting when people read the MB concepts and discover more ways their spouse "needs to change" instead of learning how to improve their own marriage skills.

In my professional life, my licensing required "continued education" hours/units.
MB is sort of like that.
Finding ways to continue our education and deepen our skill level.

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Originally Posted By: living_well
Originally Posted By: Pepperband

A marital fight/argument is one or both spouses making strained efforts to have their spouse see things differently.


It is incredibly disrespectful to try to make your spouse see things differently. It implies that your view is somehow superior.


Yes. It is important to express our point of view honestly, without belittling or casting disrespect at our beloved.

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Quote:
There are three types of attitudes you'll find inside: freeloading free spirits, wait-and-see renters, and committed buyers. Healthy relationships should pass through al three stages, but it's easy to get stuck in a rut along the way.


This is a direct quote from the bookstore - 'The One' - which is exactly the same book as BRF.

Please note that is is HEALTHY to pass through all 3 stages.
When you are dating, you are not supposed to be looking for a person who is already a "Buyer".
I sometimes see dating MBers dismiss their date as "Well, he/she was a freeloader."

Of course he/she was a freeloader, you just began dating!

Additionally, a dating prospect who quickly and willingly makes sacrifices in order to be with you is NOT a "Buyer".

Questions? Read the book!

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A Good clip on BRF. How does a renter become a buyer.
Radio Clip on BRF


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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