SC,Don't be sorry you are absolutely correct.
FTF Watching TV is not UA time.
I only meant to applaud the interjection of IC and AF into that time.
I am Sorry for the confusion.

Friday, we usually go out to eat somewhere and then just hang out. We have been to play pool, have drinks, etc.

Saturday, we have been gone to a place to see live music a few times in a row. I almost feel like that doesn't count either because we are mostly sitting there watching them play, but we do get to talk if we choose to. We do a lot of people watching during this time and commenting on things we see. Stuff like that.

In my limited experience, I believe that UA time should not include any distractions. Watching TV, going to the movies, watching a band, those are all distractions from being together. They are excuses for being in the same room, but not reasons to build your marriage. Playing pool seems OK to me but you have to spend that time meeting each others 4 intimate emotional needs. Other than recreation, pool doesnt really do that.

If you're going to stay home, try a board game or exercising g together. Look for opportunities to admire her and get affectionate. It doesn't have to lead to SF all the time but make her feel pretty and desired.

My W and I exercise together everyday. Its good to co pliment each other and even make a pass once in a while.

If you go out, remember that your goal is to meet the ENs so it has to be an environment that allows that.

You are right to be thinking like this. The gage should be this: are we meeting each others needs for conversation, affection, RC or SF? So if you are watching a band and not talking, that wouldn't really meet your purpose either. The focus should be on each other.

FTF, the simple comparison chart is this: what EN are you meeting right now? if you are watching tv, you clearly aren't having IC, offering admiration, or having SF! (well, i hope not, anyhow, in this particular sitch!) tv watching, as much as some folks like my addict H would love it to be RC, is not. you have to be having FUN, WITH each other (with being the keyword).

my husband and i like to go to a cafe in town where all the tables are outside in our pretty little city center. if we just sit, eat our cake, and people watch, are we meeting any ENs? NOPE.

but, if we sit to eat our cake, and flirt, talk, touch, etc, THEN we are meeting those important intimate needs. we are being attractive to each other, being attracTED to each other. that's the kind of thing you're aiming for with your wife.

i'm sorry i haven't read your whole thread, but can i ask...are you making yourself attractive to her? i know my H really got "comfortable" after many years of marriage. i had to make it clear to him (thank goodness for EN questionnaires!) that he is *more* attractive to me when he keeps his hair cut, shaves regularly, and wears something halfway decent when we go out together. my husband is your typical kiwi blokey-bloke (shorts, t-shirts, workboots, year-round!), so this was a big step for him nearly 20 years down the track. however, i dress up nice to make myself attractive to him - he needs to do the same! i'm not talking a 3 piece suit, just clean, tidy "california casual" clothes. no, he can't rely on his his big ole self (physically, he is exactly my "type," even at 50+) doing the trick by just being present. <--my point there is that even if you were her "type," that's not necessarily a bonus. *everyone* needs to work at keeping up that PA.

the heat it generates between us is worth the few minutes time it takes to get dolled up a bit.

your wife fell in love with you once upon a time. you *can* bring that magic back into your relationship. we'll work on her on her end, but you've got to up the UA time and focus on meeting those ENs. that is your #1 goal.

Thanks for the example. I think we do have that problem. We will go out together, but I'm not sure were are actually meeting any needs. I'll think about that in the future.

To answer your question though, I do make it a point to dress nicer when we go out. I treat it like a date with a women I am trying to impress. I'm always showered and smelling good for our times out together.

Dude, were you yet advised against reading your spouse's thread?

From "Who's Online" earlier

FightTheFight...User...Member...03/15/13 08:06 AM/...Reading a post...Forum: Surviving an Affair...Thread: unwilling

Things are said by colleagues here to each spouse that cannot but influence the opposite number, sometimes in negative directions.

There is no way that's not gonna happen. I could lie to you and say I won't but then I'd be lying.

So following up on the discussion from yesterday about what was considered UA time, I pulled out the recreational inventory sheet and we both listed things we liked to do.

We have done this in the past but I wanted to go over it again. It appears that several of thie things on the list that we both rank as high enjoyment items are not good UA activities. (TV, movies, concerts) Which makes me wonder why put them on there at all, but I digress.

We did find a few that I thought would be ok. Camping, bowling, sightseeing. maybe we will just go driving around. Anyway, we are going to go bowling this Sat instead of the music thing.

Here's a quote from HNHN on Recreational Companionship:

"...The fifteen hours a week you and your spouse schedule to give each other undivided attention should not be peppered with calls to the office or errands that distract your attention from each other.

"On the other hand, recreational activities can become a part of this time without causing any resentment if the activity is not too distracting. When couples are courting, they tend to combine conversation and affection with recreational activities. It's a very natural blend that increases the pleasure that couples experience when they're together.

"I encourage couples to try to use at least part of their 15 hours for recreational activities. The only condition that must be met is that the activity cannot prevent a couple from giving each other undivided attention. If a favorite activity is too distracting to qualify, then a couple must schedule time outside their 15 hours to engage in it together."

So if you and your W want to schedule a concert, go ahead. Enjoy the drive over, hold her hand/cuddle while at the concert, maybe get a coffee or bite to eat afterward. The concert is not likely to allow for much conversation, so you wouldn't count that time toward your 15 hours. But you would both enjoy the date and have something fun to talk about.

Well, the kind of thing we have been going to is at a restaurant / bar that has live music after say 9 PM. We usually go a couple of hours early and have dinner first. Then we sit at the bar and watch the band play. Then we go home. So it's not really like a traditional concert type thing.

The drive over is only like 15 mins.

I always just assume spouses will read each others threads. I know they do! At least you are honest about it!

BECAUSE, not all RC is to be included in UA time.


Do you like going shopping together? Some of our BEST UA time is spent shopping. As long as it isn't at a place either of us hates. There are stores we both enjoy and we have the best time there!

But if I take him to the mall, he starts getting "sick" after about 20 minutes. I am serious. He gets PHYSICALLY sick and I heard Dr Harley say the same thing happens to him on the radio this week!!

And God help me if I take him to the MAKE UP counter in a department store!! He makes derogatory remarks about the prices.

OK that makes sense. I don't think we really have time for anything but UA time right now though.


My W DOES NOT want me shopping with her at the mall. I don't make comments about the prices but I think she "knows" I'm thinking it.

Shopping at the right store might be an idea though. I know my W loves to shop.

WE have found this to be the key. Stores that we both like are Sams, Wal-Mart, Bath and Body Works and short stints through JC Penney.

Thrift shop!


FTF,

I HATE shopping with my wife (I remember one excursion that was 6 hours to put together 3 outfits).

But... I love shopping FOR my wife.

So I git my W to look at the marital problem questionnaire. Here is the issue. She can't or won't identify anything as a problem. ????

It's frustrating to me because I can't get any direction from her. It was basically the same thing with the needs questionnaire. Everything she listed as not being satisfied with she also listed as me doing it often enough and in a way she likes?

It's like I'm left shooting in the dark.

On a good mote, we went on our bowling date last night and she said it was the most fun she has had in a long time. So +1 for finding something we like to do together. I did take into account whether we were meeting each others needs for IC, RC, AF, and SF.

Well, RC was there of course. It was hard to get her to talk about anything intimate, so I just started talking about problems I was having with some things at work. That was about the extent of IC though. I tried though I really did.

For AF I tried to include as much physical touch as I could in the context of what we were doing. Kisses in place of high fives was a fav. I complimented her on her form and such to get in some AD, since she lists that as a top 5. SF did not happen at the bowling alley obviously. It wasn't on the menu when we got home either, although I did receive a bit of a neck massage after we got home because I had a bit of a headache. (I had to remind her that she had offered, but at least it was there).

You are crying out for Harley coaching. Both you and your wife want a loving marriage - that she does is evident to me from her depression at the state of her life now. She needs guidance to get her to do the things, like the questionnaire, that will give you both tasks to work on. you can't be that guide because right now she doesn't want anything from you.

Forgive me for not re-reading the entire thread. Is money a problem, stopping you from consulting with Jennifer Chalmers? And beyond that, can you afford the online course?

Even a free email to Dr Harley would give you direction. I suggest that your wife writes to him from her point of view. It would be so good if she would agree to talk to him on the radio show - but even jus email advice would make a difference.

So has all this been suggested to you before? Recently, since your wife began posting?

Where do you stand financially on coaching?

We did speak top Dr. Harley on the radio shop, although I don't think we really got to the heart of the matter. Or maybe we did?

As far as the online course, we could purchase it right now with the money we have in savings. There would not be agreement on spending it though. And to be honest, I'm not sure I want to drop the coin on something I'm almost sure she would not be willing to go all in on and work it either.

The phone coaching would be my choice although it is out of our price range long term. I might be able to sell some sessions, but this will limit our ability to get out of the house. The truth is we probably could not afford the phone coaching AND date nights 2 or 3 times a week.

i noticed you suggested Jennifer? Any particular reason?