DNT,

I just re-read your entire post and am almost 100% sure that your wife is still having an affair and is extremely foggy. Her unwillingness to truly recover,not letting you meet her needs,and so many other red flags pop out in your post.

I am no vet and no expert on all of the legal stuff but I can tell you that you need to get a lawyer ASAP. I hope you have been documenting EVERYTHING.

Also, I skimmed your post and don't recall seeing anything about a massive exposure. Did you expose? If so, how far and wide?

What you are going through is very similar to NotDoneYet. Have you read his post and some of the advice the vets are giving him? If not you need to ASAP!!

I wish I could help more but all I can say is to hang on there and keep posting, venting, and asking for help on this site.

Hopefully the wise ones will be on here shortly!

fifteenyears, his situation is not even close to Notdoneyet. This guy is a serial cheater who recently confessed all his affairs to his wife. She is entitled to leave the marriage if she so chooses. I am sorry to see she is doing it in such a underhanded way, but she has every right to leave the marriage.


Expose himself?

I feel this is partially correct. MY situation is not similiar to Notdoneyet. I am the betrayer. I had 3 ONS 10 years ago and more recently inapproppriate contact online two OW online which I later determined were not EA's as there were no expression of love for neither. Yes, I dropped a ton of bricks on my wife in disclosing all of this. Not sure if that makes me a serial cheater, but I do realize she has every right to leave the marriage if I were still being unfaithful. That has not been the case. We were working to restore and affair proof our marriage at least so I thought.

No, she has every right to leave the marriage regardless of the current state of your affairs. She was not given the option of making that choice when you had the affairs. Every person who is betrayed gets to decide if they want to stay or go. It sounds to me like she has chosen the latter. I am sorry but that is a job hazard of infidelity.

Fair enough...they say the harvest is always larger than the seed. Definitely the case here. Wish I didn't suck as a husband. Pray for my sanity

Wowza,

I really read your post wrong and I apologize for my earlier advice and connection to NDY. What I can suggest DNT, is for you to continue to clean up your side of the street with or without your wife.

Mel, is right that she has every right to leave. You howevet don't have the right to give up. Keep reading MB and working the program with no expectations. My BH left twice, and had an RA. It was so hard at the time but I knew this was the ripple affect of my actions.

fifteen thanks for the encouragement. I need every bit I can get. Last night was excruciating not seeing my babies. I will do the best I can. We were scheduled for marriage counseling today at 3pm. I'll go regardless. I need to start protecting our assets. I don't know whether to try to work our an emergency loan modification with our lender to keep our home or just let it go. I need to focus and do my best to head off what is sure to be a huge financial setback and an emotional rollercoaster not seeing my wife and children. I really thought we were on the verge of a breakthrough... I really did.

DNT, I have read through your posts and listened to the audio you linked to your radio interview with the Harleys.

Your wife is in withdrawal and is on a roller coaster of emotions from your revealing the truth about your infidelities. She wants to heal and feels her greatest chance to do this is to be separated from you.

Dr.Harley specifically advised you to:

1.) Establish and maintain Extraordinary Precautions for life, which would include having no female friendships, e.g. you wouldn't speak about personal things to any females.

Have you written out a list of EPs and promised to adhere to them? Have you demonstrated your willingness in the time since? Did your wife add any? Does she know all your passwords and where you are (before she left?)

2.) Never do anything again to hurt her.

You said you had not had an angry outburst in the past month before the call. Have you had any since? Have you been making any selfish demands, insisting on your way? Have you made any disrespectful judgments? Have you eliminated ALL independent behavior?

You said your wife feels she is being forced to do things you want to do. If she does not, you get upset and are disrespectful with her.

3.) Fill out the RC inventory together and do ALL RC together and you both have to want that particular activity.

You didn't have much time since the call and the separation, but did you get started on this?

Dr. Harley said your wife has felt like she's been under your thumb for many years and wants to share control rather than being dominated.

It appears that you are pretty good at some things within the marriage but love bust so frequently that your wife's love bank is drained.

My recommendation is to call your wife or, perhaps better, send her a letter respectfully telling her that you understand why she is withdrawn from you and why she felt like she needed to leave. Tell her that there has not been enough time for her to see that your changes (presuming that there have been noticeable changes) are permanent and that you will never again hurt her or demand your own way. Agree with her that you have not taken extraordinary care in your marriage as you should have. Tell her you intend to become a better man and then detail exactly what and how you plan to do that. Then start doing it.

No matter what - do not be with other women or succumb to love busters. Read the book again and take notes on what you need to get to work on.

If your wife is willing, take her out on dates. Make sure they are things that you both want to do, not things that only you want to do.

As to finances, before panicking, take note of all your expenses and see where you can cut back. Sounds like you have, or had, a savings account. See where all your assets are and protect them for the marriage. Don't cut your wife off financially.

Do you know about the POJA?

Now that you have been on the radio program, the Harleys will continue to assist if you ask them. Please continue to get their coaching and help. Be very careful about going to a non-MB or MB-supplemented only counselor.

LongWay - Thank for your taking time listen to my call and get a read on my situation.
I discerned this to be the case.
Dr.Harley specifically advised you to:

I have not written them out. We only made it (my reading aloud) through 3-4 pages of SAA. So I don�t believe my wife would have the needed understanding of the value placed on EP�s that I would agree to. She does and has always have known my passwords. She�s honestly never bothered much to venture into my email or social network activity�even when I insist she do so. She�s a firm believer in independence. I believe she knows my whereabouts most of the time. When I feel she doesn�t I sent her message or call to check-in and ask if she needs anything. We�ve also had family trackers on our phones for some time so she could always utilize that option. (she removed her number from the tracking account after leaving on Tuesday�no surprise there.)
No angry outburst since. Done with those for life. DJ�s? I would say not at all. She may answer differently considering my questioning to go through the MB process. Certainly no name calling nor the like. IB? No
I printed it. She looked it over briefly. She�s not interested. She did however fill out an ENQ for the Dr. Harley and it stated �As our recreational desired are different I prefer not to have companionship. It can be better satisfied by me having more time to enjoy things I like to do�
Did I mention she was a firm believer in independence? I recall Dr. Harley discussion on air about how we think having an independent spouse is such a great thing in terms of martial philosophy�but how that trait comes back to bite you over time. That�s the dilemma we have.
I got started on as much as I could, but she was never interested from the outset regardless of the numerous accounts of success from you guys on the forum or the calls on MB radio. She listened to a few upon my insistence.
I concer

I�ve put all of this in writing and given to her..not in those exact words but very very close. But that was before she left. Perhaps I will do a follow-up all inclusive letter along those lines. She�s not really taking my calls at the moment. We have been texting today about my seeing my children soon.
As I am writing this�the movers have shown up again at our house. She explained what all she is taking. No fight�.no quarrels


don�t know�maybe later
Yes, she�s not interested at this point.

That�s why I�m headed as we speak. 3pm appointment. Wish me luck. The wife is not joining me today.

Sorry for the numerous typos above as I was rushing out the door to get to my solo counseling session which turned out well as a one on one. There will be more. The therapist actually suggested what I determined to be a "friend of good conversation" to discuss our pains 10 � 15 minutes of exchange and listen. Not so sure about discussing the pains part though. As I returned from counseling my wife was still at our home with the movers. I texted her on the way home (I have Siri � so I paid attention to the road ) letting her know the session went well and that I had some things to share that was suggested. Neither did I or nor she think that she would still be there when I returned. As I walked in she said she had just replied to my text and I noticed her staring out into our big bay window into the back yard with tears in her eyes. I asked what was wrong�she said �the house� and stopped�then she said �I�m sorry�.can I call you later�I�m paying these guys by the hour� (i.e.you mean WE are paying these guys with OUR money) I kept the aforementioned thought to myself and said ok. As I looked down at her text it said the following � Ok. Thank you for sharing [about the counseling]. I am getting the last box out of the house. I really appreciate it. I hate the way it looks. It really hurts me. I am sorry. I still love you�.
I must admit I was a little tee�d off about the way the house looked knowing how much work and effort I�ve put into it with my own hands. But I was also glad that she felt some uneasiness about going this route. I sat out front and watched as the moving truck drove off.
One thing I forgot to mention before I went to my session is that I asked if our children were back at school. I went by there earlier to hug and kiss them since I had not seen them since Tuesday morning and they were not there. I sent her text indicating I did so..and what�s up�she replied that they were �we decided to take our first spring break and they very were happy�. Can�t explain the feeling that went over my body but I quickly calmed down. I asked the same question before I left for my session today and she repeated the answer. I asked if they would be back at school on tomorrow and she responded no. I frankly asked �where are they?� She said we�ll talk about it. I am soooo glad I needed to head out the door because I felt my brows burn. Needless to say � I don�t know exactly where my children are located. THAT is a problem! Both the therapist and the attorney I consulted with immediately after seeing they weren�t at daycare indicated that I have every right to know where they are located and to have access to them. They both stated that I should respectively press the issue. I�ll report back on how that turns out.

Have you found out where your children are?

DNT,

Okay, I reread your posts and actually really read them vs. skimming them. So now that I have come to the realization that you are a wayward vs.a battered, your story actually reflects much more closely to my own.

My BH allowed me back only two weeks after my A. He, like your wife tried very hard to get past my A and could not. A month later he unexpected moved out and even though I deserved it, it took me totally by surprise because in my mind I thought we were in recovery. In his mind, he was barely hanging on. This was all pre MB.

Your wife has built a protective wall around her heart. The reason she is cold (in which I originally mistook for fog) is her protecting herself from you.

I noticed you said she is not interested in EP's, POJA, or anything you have to offer MB wise. my suggestion, DO IT ANYWAY WITH NO EXPECTATIONS!!! Even if you do not get her back, show her that you are willing to change and change for good. Not just for her but for you and your children.

I can't promise you anything and I am not guaranteeing a happy ending. I can tell you when I truly started to show my H that I was changing and continued to change, he took me back.

It was when I finally ended my selfishness and let him go, that he let down his wall and allowed me back in. This did not happen over night and he actually left two additional times after the original time. I had to let him go and just continue to show him that no matter what I was a different person determined to protect our marriage.

From your recent post I can see that your wife still feels something for you and your marriage. However her mindset right now is the the present is too hard to salvage anything in the past. Your job is to show her that you can provide her a better future.

Again, no expectations. Change yourself for you but show your wife along the way that you are going to be a different man.

At this point I have not. I just sent her a text to call me so we can discussed the children. My intention is to communicate what both the therapist and attorney have indicated...as the father I have a right and responsibility to know where my children are located at all times... especially in Texas.

Yes fifteen our situations sound very similiar. I will do as you suggested with no expectations...other than seeing my children. That's non-negotiable. Am I wrong for stating that? Everyone I've consulted with doesn't seem to think so. I want my marriage to be restored. It's best for us and our children but I'll give her what ever time and space that she needs.

Again I state our situation is simliar with one caveat. I hear Dr. Harley mention (I listen often :)) that a reluctant wife is hardest to win over as opposed to a reluctant husband. In our case it's likely even harder with so much pain of my own doing to overcome. But I am hopeful that she will come around. I beleive she loves me. I just can't beleive she's acting like this with our little ones.

But DNT, she may decide it is not best for her. Only SHE can decide that. And that is her right. It is disrespectful for you to tell a grown woman that it is best for her to stay in a marriage where there has been so much abuse. You are not in a position to decide that for her since you are the reason she wants to leave the marriage.

Don't make the situation worse by telling her you know what is best for HER.

Understood... best for our children only. When I state for us I mean as a family unit including the children. But I understand your point..I can't decide for HER. It's only slight deviation isn't it from the question I've seen on here stating "don't you think you would be happiest if you were in love with the father/mother of your children?" Or am I taking that out context? Or perhaps if only "slight" deviation a very important one?

But, you are taking it out of context. Dr Harley says that to wayward spouses on behalf of a betrayed spouse who is willing to take her spouse back. He doesn't say that to the victim of an affair because that is the only person who is qualified to decide if it is in her best interest to continue the marriage.

However, if a BS expresses she doesn't want the marriage, he wishes her well.

I wouldn't bring up what is best for your children since it was your affairs that brought their family down. YOU threw the gasoline on your marriage.

Here is what Dr Harley tells betrayed spouses:

Dr. Willard Harley from his infidelity video

Got it... Melody I know that you are making the crooked places straight for me and I appreciate your being candid. But, if I didn't know any better I'd suspect you of being slightly biased ..but I think I know better

Guess who is the least objective person on this thread?

X2