I am pretty confident now most of this has to do w her upbringing and things that happened to her. I dont have a printer so I wrote out the questionnaire and she puts financial support and domestic support at the top,but shes just not sure about the more emotional stuff.

she agrees everyone needs and enjoys those things but she says every relationship shes been in, once things get deeper and serious, those things become offputting to her, she told me I do a good job at doing all of those things, she just feels its too much effort to recipirocate and and she ends up feeling like she needing anything herself is stupid and doesnt matter.

she asked me to be open and honest about my feelings and I again told her it is my main priority to have a happy,healthy,fun fullfilling marriage and family and that that this is the most painful thing I've ever dealt with especially if she leaves.

she said she knows that and she liked the idea of marriage in the beginning but its kind of lost its luster, she was even feeling this way before marriage but has never been totally honest about her feelings, she says the happiest shes been was when she got her first apartment and was self reliant so thats why she wants to separate, but still wants to do thingsas a family and not see other people.

I'm just gonna keep trying to fill her love bank and hope she will keep being open.

She's having an affair.

The more you write, the more sure I am. Please put that VAR in her car. Stop in at her workplace unexpectedly and take her to lunch. If the employees act nervous, that could be a sign. Typically when a WW is having a workplace affair, they tell the rest of the coworkers stories about the "abusive husband" who she is divorcing.

The reason none of this makes sense unless there is an affair is because the solution to an empty marriage is to work to turn it around. That is what someone normally does. But there is a reason she doesn't want to. It is because there is someone else.

The reason she doesn't want you to fill her lovebank, is because it is closed to you.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5059_qa.html

here

There is more to it than this tunedin. This is the most bizarre thing I�ve ever heard. I don�t know what the explanation is but being self reliant � and yet still wanting to be a family is contradictory. What in the world is in it for you if that is what she truly wants?

I think she needs to come clean if there is something to come clean about and if she truly doesn�t know then I think it best she talk to someone who can help her get to the bottom of it.

Who goes through life not wanting to be loved by someone?

exactly my thoughts, exactly, like I said she has had some abuse issues growing up and she is seeing a counselor now I am seeing the same one seperately, I'm going to do the var thing and go through her cell some more, I'm really at a wall here and very distraught but staying focused.

I am also gonna do some reverse fone searches for any numbers in her fone that arent in her contacts.

My FWH put OW number under the name of one of his friends in the contacts.

Check all the numbers. I actually sat down and called the numbers to see who answered as well as googling them.

This is a long shot, but the source might be the counselor. If your wife is telling this counselor that she is unhappy in this marriage, a typical counselor will advise her to get divorced. An IC does nothing to help a marriage. Could this be the culprit?

I think you should step up the snooping but I would also be asking questions about the counselor.

It is a crying shame she is going to a "counselor" about her childhood problems. What a destructive endeavor to bring the tragedy of the past into the present. Its a good way to create depression and suicidal ideation. And it does nothing to resolve problems of the present.

MelodyLane might be right...An affair is a very commmon reason for someone to not let you meet their needs. And we have seen time and time again that "my spouse would never" and "I would know" but when the person digs a little deeper they find evidence...it could just be an Emotional Affair. It could be on line or in text. It could be someone at work.

One more option maybe that she is clinically depressed. Her lack of interest in anything may be evidence.

What I would suggest at this point is to try some sleuthing as others have suggested just to cover that base. The next thing Is to make a phone counseling appt with either Steve Harley or Jennifer Harley-Chalmers here on the site.
They will help you to get a reluctant spouse on board. Thirdly you can say that she just doesn�t seem interested in anything and that doesn�t seem like her so you have made an appt for her to see her doctor to discuss depression.

I greatly thank all of you for your advice and help,there is no possible way I can afford phone therepy, but I have been suspicious of the counseling from the start, the counselor has never really seemed interested in saving our marriage as much as working on ourselves, it doesn't help that my wife really really likes the counselor, I am doing more in depth searching and will continue to stay positive while notdoing anything to relieve my wifes guilt in this situation.

Is the counselor a man or woman?

woman

I sometimes feel as though they are trying to just get me to accept that its over and dont care that I think a happy family and marriage is the best outcome. Like just let it go and move on, which I could do if she would go, but as of now she wont just go, and I will not accomodate her because I just don't believe in it and I refuse to give her a reason to go.

You can�t afford MB marriage counseling. I assume that means the IC she is getting is covered by insurance or is part of some company EAP? If not then I suggest you negotiate the counseling with her.

Why does she like her? Why do many people like IC?

Maybe it's because she gets to sit around and reflect on all the bad crap that happened to her and while that may feel like it is healing it isn't. It only brings back to the surface all the crud and all the cruddy feelings. Typical IC is nothing more than people being able to divulge things they keep hidden or things that made them hurt or whatever and in some shape or form the counseling let�s them feel like someone has an empathetic ear. Great � but what does that accomplish? Is that really healing? Can you really talk someone out of those cruddy feelings? Maybe. More than likely what happens that works best is to move past the feelings. Put them to rest and get on with life. Stop feeling sorry for oneself or what have you.

Let�s talk about your W and this counseling. How long has she been going to this counselor? And in all that time what has changed? What behaviors has your W exhibited that told you you were getting some ROI?

I�m not saying that it is this way in every situation. My W was sexually abused as a child and raped later on as an adult. My W went to see an IC for symptoms I think are because of those experiences. She specialized in EFT and EMDR therapies. I did see some differences in my W after she went to see this Dr. So there was some validity to that IC.


Her and I also saw this same IC as our MC. I sat alone in her office and spewed out all of my struggles from my life and it felt good � but it got me NOWHERE. And the MC�ing � not much changed in the overall scheme of things between her and I. Why?� because there was no plan � just the plan that we keep coming back.

In the last 5 months my W and I have used the phone counseling here and it made a huge difference for both of us because now we have a plan, some action items and we can keep each other honest/held accountable.

Does this counselor feel your W has depression issues?

Use your money wisely.

yes it is coveredby ins, and our history is similar, we saw the same person as our mc, and like you said it was pretty much spewing crud and crying and not getting anywhere, a couple of times I asked 'cant we move on to more positive stuff' and it wouldnt work cuz we were to wrapped up in negative. The only real change my wife has shown is that when she says she feels guilty about all of this, she says the counselor told her not to feel guilty about her feelings.

we have been seeing this c for 4 mnths and I am also seeing her on my own, I don't feel it's getting us anywhere cuz its not, yeah it's nice to talk and get feedback, but I'm really going to hopefully understand my wife better and if nothing else be able to say I was trying to do something to fix our marriage in case divorce ever becomes reality. It's really weird, the counselor told me last time that my wife has been given a gift in who I am and as long as I take care of myself everything else will fall into place, yet she hasn't once told me anything I could do or say to help our marriage. I get it, it's just not what I came there for.

and yes my wife does have some depression issues and the counselor agrees, as does my wife for that matter, she started some meds 7 mnths ago and she says they have helped but she thought they would fix everything, and we all know thats just wishfull thinking. she says she likes the counselor because shes easy to talk to.

Ok, that answers alot of questions. Most counselors are divorce facilitators who care nothing about marriages. Counselors don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage and have a higher personal divorce rate the general population. That should tell you something right there!

Is the depression because she is sitting in counseling yapping about her tragic past? Because that is a sure fire way to GET and STAY depressed and angry.

She does not know how to save your marriage and is wasting valuable time exploring your wife's past. I would lose this counselor and take charge of your marriage. You can have a happy, romantic, passionate marriage if you follow this program. You will end up divorced if you don't get away from this counselor.

The way to save your marriage is outlined in the article in the header of this forum, "How to resolve conflicts and restore love to your marriage." I would show this to your counselor and and ask what her plan is to save your marriage. I assure you she has no such plan. That is not her goal.