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Quote:
I don't even know where to start.


This is not MB gospel, but based on my experience.
I started with a list.
My list taught me a lot about myself.
I began writing something like this:

"I don't think I want a cheating husband".
That struck me as weak.
So I changed it to:
"I don't want a cheating husband."
Then, I changed it to something better:
"I am certain I will not remain married to a cheating husband." <~~~ BINGO!

Then, I went on to write many other things. Every item began "I am certain ...."

Until you know what you are certain about you will flounder and be vulnerable to lies & gas-lighting.

Quote:
how would I go to him with a list of conditions,


"I am certain I will not stay in a marriage where my needs and concerns are not important to you.
I am certain I will not stay in an unsafe marriage.
I am certain that unless my needs to be protected are met, I will be seeking a separation from this marriage.
If we separate, returning to the marriage will require you follow specific rules to protect our marriage from another affair.
Let me know when you are ready to see my rules of protection."

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Originally Posted By: cd78
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So, I guess I'm just as confused as I ever was/ever will be. I know better, I deserve better. To go back to what ML said, and I'm being completely serious and honest in this, how would I go to him with a list of conditions, especially if I'm not to confront him, and what would they be?


Yes, you confront him. DEAD ON. You are supposed to be FIRM and SERIOUS and I don't see that you have ever done that.

Set him down and explain that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you wont stay in a loveless marriage where you have to endure his alley catting. In order for the marriage to recover, he will have to make radical, dramatic changes in order to protect you. This is what it will take to keep you in this marriage:

1. no more contact with any women at work, even secretaries, support staff, etc

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about his affair<s> passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.

He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, and affairs will be a way of life for you.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if he won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

If he won't do these things and do them immediately, I would ask him to move out. And yes, he will have to pay the bills.

If he declines your offer, go pack up his clothes for him.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Agree with ML's list -- but would add poly. This is necessary since you don't know the full extent of his first affair and what else he has been doing in his secret second life (such as the online dating profile, etc)


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Ok, so here's what I've come up with...

I DESERVE not to be cheated on, emotionally OR physically.
I DESERVE a marriage based on honestly, love, and mutual honesty
I DESERVE to be respected

How can this be done?

-No more females as friends
-Complete transparency - no hidden email addies, all passwords shared
-Complete honesty - from the first A to now
-No more skype/facetime/whatever with females - even for work
-No more deleted emails - shows dishonesty/untruthfulness, etc.
-Commit to MB principles

I basically combined Pep & ML's ideas. Thoughts?

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Know ahead of time what spousal support you are legally entitled to.

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Originally Posted By: cd78


I DESERVE not to be cheated on, emotionally OR physically a faithful husband.
I DESERVE a marriage based on honestly, love, and mutual honesty.
I DESERVE to be respected.


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All right folks, time to get the twoxfour ready. I have a feeling my head will be sore....


Confronted H Monday, basically said why he has to choose to break my heart with his crap. I didn't have to explain what I meant by that at all. Blamed some of it on her being interested in him and stuff (this was a realization just a bit ago, didn't catch it at the time). I plain and simple said to him that he has no boundaries. He agreed. He went on to bemoan about how he can't have friends dramaqueen (because the only type of friend he makes is female...). I told him no, he can't, not if he can't keep boundaries.

He asked if I was going to leave, and I told him not if you stop this crap now, and he said it was already over before I confronted (please don't think I'm gonna believe that for a moment, although she DID basically turn him down...) and he was sorry and all the normal crap. He did ask if I was looking up legal separation and I told him yes I was because I can't do this again and I don't deserve it but I love him and don't want to separate.

That was the basic gist. Later I started talking to him about his needs, etc, basically paving the way to MB principles (ok, I didn't demand to use MB here like I should have, big 2x4 coming for that I know...). He went on about not knowing his needs, he likes attention but wants to be left alone, blah blah blah. I agree, attention is a huge need for him. I tried to tell him my needs, need for affection especially. One thing he did mention, and I own, is that he feels second to my electronics (tablet, smartphone, etc). I'm ADD and so things like that keep my attention much more than they should. I told him I will own that and keep working on it. He said that I said that before, and I told him he was right, but I'm also not perfect and can only try my hardest. I tried to get him to talk more but he was getting agitated and it was late and I didn't want to push the issue more (I can see Scotty's face right now... uhuh) ...

So, continuing on, I knew his workload was slow yesterday so I asked him to come with me on a drive, as I had an interview for a job in a city about 2 hours away, where we both want to move to. He did. I made sure unless absolutely necessary that I didn't start playing with my electronics. The only time he was alone was during my interview (No VAR was set up though...)

During the evening, he was very affectionate, I stayed off my electronics. He even showed me emails of his without me asking (like it matters at this point, he knows I'm snooping. But at least he chose to do that himself...)

I haven't asked him to be completely honest about the past A, especially if there was more than what I already know. This is my fault, but it's hard for me to ask that question. I twoxfour myself for not being willing enough to step up and ask that. I guess I'm afraid of LB'ing, but at the same time, radical honesty, right?

I'm still snooping, though not paying as much attention to emails because he knows I'm watching them. I'm watching for a second email address; can't get a keylogger because I honestly have no $$ for it, but I'm trying to save up for it; I have my VAR in place any time I'm not home with him, as that would be the most likely time he would start something, skype-chat, etc. I'm 99% sure he doesn't know about it because I know him and he would NOT be happy with that, to put it nicely.

So, that's the update, friends. I'll keep ya'll posted when I can...

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Quote:
Confronted H Monday


Instead of exposure, right?

I wish you the best of luck.

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Originally Posted By: Pepperband
Quote:
Confronted H Monday


Instead of exposure, right?

I wish you the best of luck.


Ok, wait. Now I'm getting conflicting advice...

Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: cd78
o
So, I guess I'm just as confused as I ever was/ever will be. I know better, I deserve better. To go back to what ML said, and I'm being completely serious and honest in this, how would I go to him with a list of conditions, especially if I'm not to confront him, and what would they be?


Yes, you confront him. DEAD ON. You are supposed to be FIRM and SERIOUS and I don't see that you have ever done that.



I specifically asked about confrontation.

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cd, Pepperband made the suggestion to EXPOSE first. Did you read that?

Originally Posted By: Pepperband

You do what you want. But exposure works a hell of a lot better than "confrontation".
If you confront without doing an exposure first, I say "good luck". And I wish you well.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: cd78

I haven't asked him to be completely honest about the past A, especially if there was more than what I already know. This is my fault, but it's hard for me to ask that question. I twoxfour myself for not being willing enough to step up and ask that. I guess I'm afraid of LB'ing, but at the same time, radical honesty, right?


It is not a lovebuster to ask your spouse to be honest about his affairs. It is a non-negotiable condition.

What has changed here other than you told him he has no boundaries? I don't see how anything has changed?

Quote:
. He agreed. He went on to bemoan about how he can't have friends dramaqueen (because the only type of friend he makes is female...). I told him no, he can't, not if he can't keep boundaries.


He is not serious about this at all. He has had multiple affairs and he bemoans that "he can't have friends?" He just doesn't care.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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My WW bemoaned the EP's this weekend. I feel controlled, I can't even go to the store by myself, I wanted orange juice the other day and couldn't even stop for it, blah, blah, blah. After I called the Waaaambulance, my response was, "I need you to start showing some care for what my heart has been through and stop worrying about what you cant do. In time you'll get your orange juice but not until you help rebuild some of the trust that you ripped from me". She stopped complaining for now.

They are so foggy. You MUST be in control of this. It'll be harder now because it's happened before. If the EPs are not extremely strict you will not be safe in the marriage. It WILL happen again and again and again. He will not have your best interests in mind for years. You will have to look out for yourself until he can build some boundaries that make you safe. Until then, it's your boundaries or the hi-way...

Thats just my opinion of course

Last edited by Wow777; 03/27/13 09:45 AM.

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Yes I read that. And no I didn't. Because I either misunderstood or whatever.

Call it dramaqueen or whatever, though I'm not trying to be, but I think I am just going to excuse myself from here. I obviously don't get it and am not willing to waste others' time for that, when I know what other BS's are going through and need help more than me.

I am grateful to all who have been willing to give me advice over the past few years. Thank you.

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Don't leave cd. You need this advice more than you ever have. You need the strength and support that come from the vets here.


Me - BH 49 years old
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Originally Posted By: cd78
Yes I read that. And no I didn't. Because I either misunderstood or whatever.

Call it dramaqueen or whatever, though I'm not trying to be, but I think I am just going to excuse myself from here. I obviously don't get it and am not willing to waste others' time for that, when I know what other BS's are going through and need help more than me.

I am grateful to all who have been willing to give me advice over the past few years. Thank you.

CD (ABR)


Stop doing that.
If you leave the forum, it's because you choose to leave.

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Originally Posted By: cd78
Yes I read that. And no I didn't. Because I either misunderstood or whatever.


Right. But now that it's been clarified, instead of exposing, you are leaving?

cd, what I thought as I read through all of your past threads is that you are an ENABLER. You make excuses for your H and you let things get swept under the rug that need to be dealt with (such as the online dating profile you found hidden on his computer or getting to the bottom of his past affair/s).

The fact that you won't expose confirms it.

And you keep telling him with your actions that what he is doing is OK. In fact, you reward his wayward behavior by Plan A'ing him. Do you know what that is going to do to a entitled wayward mindset?

I predict more affairs in your future - he's just going to get better at hiding it frown


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FWW/BW (me)
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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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cd, i know you'll be reading, so what i want to say is that although you didn't expose, you could now.

You're not new to this, so you aren't getting the usual new BS treatment.

If you leave here, what is it that you are going to do? You going to let your WH get away with his affairs over and over again? What do YOU want? How are you going to accomplish that?

Do a bit of an exercise, like the one I have done at work. What is your endgoal? What things would you need to do to get there? THink it out, and write it here.


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Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

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PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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Cd, I know how you feel with so much being thrown at you. I was in your shoes once. You feel like the rug has been pulled out from under you and now everyone is telling you to do something and your so afraid of doing something wrong. In fact, I remember getting so upset with Scotland (bless her heart) because I just felt so overwhelmed by everything.

But inaction is not going to get you anywhere. So take a deep breath, go back to page one here and do things as you see them. Once you see the path you are on, you'll stop stumbling in the dark, ok?

~RQ

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I want to apologize, first off. I was frustrated and confused when I left. It was rude of me, though I was sincere when I said I felt others could be helped more than me. Two things have brought me here again:

A. Scotty is right, I did of course continue to lurk around (dern you Scotty!) - this forum has been my sanity. I realized as I wrote an email to a younger collegiate student (who basically crabbed at me that I was being disrespectful to her and others in my recent emails, and that I should read them before sending, etc.) that you cannot convey tone in an email. Same is for here. You cannot convey tone. The tone I was reading in my head was likely not the tone it was meant to be said at.

B. SusieQ is right. I'm an enabler. I realized this the other morning. I do everything I can to make my H happy, and when (as H actually pointed out) I feel threatened, I go into overdrive...

I've been trying all week to try and ask about the past A. It's been on the tip of my tongue for days.... but I can't do it. I can't say those words: "I need you to tell me all that happened with OW." and "I need you to tell me why you decided to write that profile thingy, even if it never got posted."

BTW, his one-sided A, if you can even call it that, is over. Verified by snooping and VAR. She cut him off. No, never exposed, and yes, I'll get some 2X4's for that, but I guess I don't see if it was never really anything to begin with, why I need to. Again, call me an enabler, but I'm being honest.

I'm worried about trying to present MB to him, yes, because he doesn't believe in the principles - because of him being poisoned by OW. He's never given it a chance. I did print out some of the questionnaires on LB's and needs, just afraid for whatever reason to give him it.

I don't know. I just know I need help, and you all are the only ones I can go to for this and not be told to just divorce him and move on....

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