Thanks, everyone, for all your input on my EPs. I am starting another thread with revised EPs. Please critique. I appreciate your help SO MUCH!

TS,

It is better to keep to the same thread. It makes it easier for other posters to recall who you are and what is going on. Go ahead and post them on this thread. Folks will know that they are the revised EPs.

Are you and your H both retired? Do you spend most of your time together?

Just curious, were either one of you still married when you met?


AM

ArmyMama,
I already started another thread. I'm sorry. I hope you will post your thoughts there.

Yes. H and I are both retired (5 years). Up until recently, we were like ships in the night. He went his way, I went mine. I realized we were growing apart a little over a year ago. But, he was having too good a time to get on board with limiting his IB. Golf 3X per week with the guys, tennis twice a week with a mixed group. I asked him to please at least stop the tennis. He refused. Pam ( the WONDERFUL one), was part of that group. After a while, I resigned myself to it and withdrew for about a year. One night, I couldn't sleep and wrote him a short letter telling him how unhappy I'd been and that I was seriously considering a new life without him. For some reason, that woke him up. He wanted to go to counseling. So, I agreed and we went to one who was a TOTAL waste of time. She said she "didn't know how to restore trust once it was broken". She also encouraged his IB and told him he should never have told me about how wonderful he thought this latest woman was.

I had looked at MB several years ago. We got the books, but H was totally against POJA. So, it failed, and I put it away. When the counselor didn't work out, I pulled out the old MB books. We took another look. He TRIED POJA but it still did not work for us. I had an OA. Once I calmed down, we revisited it, and I tied it to his playing golf. That seems to be working.

When we met, I had been D for two years. He was still married, but his ex had refused to relocate when he was transferred 2000 miles away (military), she had an affair, and subsequently filed for D.

You can always hit Notify and ask the MODS to merge your threads.

I couldn't find it where is it?

I can't find it, either! I looked for it under My Stuff. I was not there. It must be somewhere in cyberspace?!

I'll write it again, but it's long, so it will be a while.

Hey All,

I have revised my original EPs to reflect your suggestions. Please take a look and make any more suggestions you deem appropriate. BTW, H and I listened to the Harley broadcast today, all a out EPs. H knows his are coming.

EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS

FOCUS ON MARRIAGE
Follow, and follow through on
Policy of Joint Agreement
Policy of Radical Honesty
Policy of Undivided Attention
Extraordinary Precautions
EN's (MINE: Affection, Recreational Companionship YOURS: Affection, Sexual Fulfillment)
Avoid LB's (YOURS: Dishonesty, Independent Behavior MINE: Disrespectful Judgments, Selfish Demands)

FORMER AND POSSIBLE EAs AND PAs
Mary P (his ex)---No contact. Establish IM for any unavoidable contact
Billie---No contact
Pam---No contact. No visits to club when she probably will be there (MTTh), no walks around the neighborhood. Put house on market, if their house does not sell within 3 months.

OTHER WOMEN, IN GENERAL
No friendships with other women
No talking with them re personal subjects: likes, dislikes, our/their present or former marriages, personal history, no compliments, stay at least three feet away.
No flirting/joking around with them
Take down FB. Replace with joint FB account. Block Pam and Mary P.
No alone time with other women, friends, or not.
Nothing that can be construed as a "date"----no drinks, lunches, dinners, etc.

RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES
Golf: only when POJA'd. Phone to be on at all times. Call me from 17th hole. Golf is subject to change, since IA is against MB principles.
No more nights apart after upcoming golf trip with the guys (April 2013). During trip, no frequenting places where "pick ups" are the norm. Call me at least once per day.
All other RAs will include me and be planned to be mutually enjoyable.
Continue to plan together on Sundays for RAs and appointments

ACCOUNTABILITY
Take polygraph test
Continue to keep PWs and UNs current
Continue to keep me informed of your whereabouts at all times. Call/tell me if plans need to be changed
Exchange phones at my request
If you get the urge to do something you don't want me to know about/ are not sure I would approve, call me BEFORE you do it.
Post-nup---agreeing to ALL assets transferred to me if you ever have an EA or PA again. (Saw this on another thread. Don't know if the person was serious, but it sounds tailer-made for us since $ is very important to H. Thoughts?)
Take MB online course together. Use the accountability tool.
After completion of course, consult with MB counselor as often as they deem necessary to stay on track.

Thanks, in advance, to all. You are AWESOME!

that looks incredibly thorough, sewer! i'm sure others will have comments, but here's mine.


i'm unclear of the timeline here. i hope you mean a post-nup NOW, with transfer of all assets NOW. point? he gets to have/use/keep all those things while you both are happily married. he loses all those things should you leave due to another a. i doubt you will be able to get transfer of assets later if he becomes ensconced in another a.

thesewer, can i ask you a non-mb Q? if you find me pesty, just say so

i'm a novice sewer - i've fooled around on quilt squares for a while, and i've made a few easy-sew stretch-lace tops. i'm trying now to sew a winter dress, and i've been reminded of a problem.

i often am doing something that results in the bobbin thread getting all snarled up and eating my fabric. i'm sure this has got to be some kind of noob error...any advice?

Letty,
I don't sew much anymore. But, when I had that problem with my sewing machine, it was because the tension on the bobbin was too loose.



Sewer,

I think your EPs look very inclusive. Do you think your H will be totally onboard or will he bristle at the restrictions on his "independent behavior"? Do the two of you have fun recreation time? Do you play golf? H and I do, but we are both equally terrible. Do you enjoy other activities together?

AM

Letty,
Re your sewing issue: I agree with ArmyMama. It most probably has to do with the bobbin tension. Different fabrics sometimes need different tensions. What I do, in the case of the issue is use a scrap of the same fabric and adjust the tension until the issue resolves. That way, I don't ruin my project. I hope that helps!

Re post nup: Yes, the post nup would be written now. In the case of yet another EA or PA, I would D H and the post nup would be used in division of assets.

ArmyMama,
I think H may bristle re a few things. Polygraph, post nup, and IM for ex are the ones I think H will find most problematic.

I have been very thorough because H finds ways to circumvent. "Oh, I didn't know you meant..." Or, "I didn't know it was that important to you."

I have included golf as a "carrot" because it does mean a lot to him. Loss of a game is a consequence for not following through on his agreements. He came up with that himself. So far, it has been working well.

He may be surprised at the restrictions placed re other women. The rest of them are things we have been doing for the past month, mostly. So, not many surprises.

I have considered suggesting H call SH, if he has issues with any of the EPs.

Yes, we have been doing more RC together. H often takes the lead for this, so that has not been an issue for over a month, now.

I don't play golf. Most of the senior women in our neighborhood don't play golf, either. Some of us (me included) took lessons when we first moved here. None of us wanted to continue! There is a senior men's league, which H belongs to, but no senior women's league. There is a women's league, which Pam belongs to, and they play T and Th. Men play MWF.

H and I have used the RC questionnaire. There are a number of 5's and 6's and we concentrate on those when making weekly plans. H has been totally on board for that.

Thank you both for all your input!

thank you ladies. i've gotten out my booklet to see how to adjust bobbin tension - youtube is a goldmine for this stuff!

it sounds like you're off to a good start, sewer! keep up that UA time, and don't back down on your EPs. keep the bar set high. waywards are like children. as soon as they see they are able to jiggle that bar, they will play with it until they are walking all over you.

but - when you keep your standards high, and recovery progresses, he will be too happy in your M to chafe at the loss of his old IB/poor boundary habits. at first, they don't see the pluses, only the minuses. but as time goes by what *fills* that space is far better than what they had before. that's when you'll see the man you fell in love with again. and *that's* what makes this all worth it.

Thank you, Letty!

I hope YouTube will work for you. What did we do before we had it?

You are SO RIGHT re keeping my standards high. H asked me how I would feel about his going for a walk around the 'hood this pm. Without thinking, I said, "Sure!" And then was on pins and needles the whole time he was gone. I revisited it when he came back, he said he didn't see the harm in it. I told him I was uncomfortable about it. I wish I could just go with him. Unfortunately, I have a "bum" foot. Walking up and down the hills are bad for it, so H and I have been going to a more level place away from the 'hood. It's inconvenient, though. Today, he wanted to take the more convenient route. Anyway, I asked him not to ask me to walk around here, anymore. He agreed. That was that...and no LBs!

Bottom line: I can't let down my guard. Something I need to work very hard on.

that's something we all work on. it's so easy sometimes to let them down. just...don't. the only person who pays for it is yourself.

what we did before youtube - i can't imagine!

I don't know about your "guard," but you will do much better by implementing PoRH, PoUA, and PoJA.


For this situation;


PoRH; You tell him you are not comfortable with him going out to walk without you.

PoUA; Both of you agree to spend all of your recreational time together.

PoJA; You brainstorm solutions until you find an alternative you BOTH enthusastically agree with.

*UPDATE*

My H has been looking at the boards. This has prompted him to write to Joyce Harley:
"My wife insists I have been having an affair. I have not. I have not seen this addressed on the boards. What can I do?"

Joyce has invited us to join them on their radio show. We have agreed. It will air on Thursday. Should be interesting!

Letty---
I agree re POJA. And we did agree to his not walking around the 'hood. But, H asked me anyway. I let down my guard and gave in. My bad!

I also agree re POUA. H refuses to give up golf. He says he does not want to look out the window and see everyone playing but him. (Boohoo!)

PORH---Yes, I told him I did not feel comfortable with his walking around the 'hood. That's why we did POJA. We came up with walking away from the 'hood. Worked til I gave in/let my guard down.

You see, he has trouble with following the POJA, even though he says he "enthusiastically agrees". I have trouble with his breaking the "agreement". Not only that, but giving in to his breaking it!

You are responsible for Radical Honesty within PoJA.


Your only response is; I am not enthusiastic. Conversation over.

It is then HIS job to demonstrate care for his wife by NOT doing something you are not enthusiastic about.

What he can do is take a polygraph!! That is an easy question to answer.

Believe it or not, he agreed to it---the day before he called Joyce. And the plot thickens...

Sewer,

Schedule the polygraph. A couple of days before the polygraph, give him a list of whatever questions you might have. At the polygraph appointment, ask two or three of those questions.

It is amazing what truths come out the day before the polygraph.

I look forward to hearing the radio show Thursday.

AM