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Jedi Knight,
Yes I did but I need to rebuild my credit and I think that their is great value in doing this program and I feel justified in putting this purchase on a credit card. I will not us this card for everyday purchases or anything that is unimportant. I only have a $1000 dollar limit. Can't do a lot of damage with that.
KISS
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Kiss. Have you checked out the Dave Ramsey program?
FYI. I'm going through bankruptcy and foreclosure myself
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Also, a nice read would be Buyers, Renters, and freeloaders. I think you had a Buyers mentality and got comfortable with being back with your BW and slipped right back into your renters agreement. Also, HPB made a good post and we are awaiting your response. You can't pick and choose the program. I really hope your trying your best but your output on these forums is really lacking.
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It sounds like they have always had a Renter relationship.
Independent lifes
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TD, and JK, I think at the BEST times, Kiss has been a renter, but probably closer to a freeloader.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING  Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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Kiss there are 4 INTIMATE EN's - you think there is just one.
Do the two of you know about and meet these other intimate EN's or are they just as starved as your SF EN?
BTW, How often does RQ climax during SF? Is it worth her effort to engage in SF? If there is no climax for her, then she'll feel used and dislike SF even more.
The worst part of SF is that it's a HUGE trigger now thanks to your affair..... That's why recovery from an affair is so tough.
If you think you had SF issues before, they are now quadrupled due to your A. Your affair didn't just add a small roadblock, HellNo, you blew up the roadway with an A-Bomb. Now you're getting uptight that she can't seem to get across a blown up road at the pace you expect.
Are you getting any of this? Don't be blowing by this post.... Please reply! Anything?
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Kiss there are 4 INTIMATE EN's - you think there is just one.
Do the two of you know about and meet these other intimate EN's or are they just as starved as your SF EN?
BTW, How often does RQ climax during SF? Is it worth her effort to engage in SF? If there is no climax for her, then she'll feel used and dislike SF even more.
The worst part of SF is that it's a HUGE trigger now thanks to your affair..... That's why recovery from an affair is so tough.
If you think you had SF issues before, they are now quadrupled due to your A. Your affair didn't just add a small roadblock, HellNo, you blew up the roadway with an A-Bomb. Now you're getting uptight that she can't seem to get across a blown up road at the pace you expect.
Are you getting any of this? Don't be blowing by this post.... Please reply! Anything? I don't know about you, HPB, but I have a feeling, I may be experiencing a bit of insanity.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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HerPapaBear,
I am not sure that we do know what they are. I have looked through this site and can't find them. I also was looking to revisit His Needs, Her Needs but I let someone borough it and I haven't gotten it back yet.
I have discussed the sexual frustration question with RQ and it is not an issue or part of the reason why we aren't that intimate.
I also realize the affects of my affair on our intimacy and what a trigger it is. That is why I didn't want to let RQ know of my frustration. I felt I had to let her know so she had some kind of understanding of of why I was on the couch watching TV at night. I know she has pain I didn't want to add any kind of pressure or expectations on top of that. I was trying to be truthful and I didn't want it to be a big deal. My delivery was definitely wrong.
KISS
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Jedi_Knight,
No I have not. The thing that killed us was our house that we bought. We purchased a house for $330k doing a 80/20 loan. What a mistake. Our mortgage was about $3,100 combined between the two. Witch we thought we would be fine. My parents and my two sisters with their husbands moved to Florida within month of each other. My one sister watched our two little ones. We gave her something like $200 a week. Then we had to pay day care $1500 a month and that was for just 3-4 days a week. I worked construction with my father. Doing roofing, siding roofing etc. I was able to make good money for only doing it a couple of days a week. So then I lost that extra money also. It was 1500 to 2000 a week sometimes.
Then we started to fix the house we bought as the previous owner did a lot of work him self and it wasn't good. We started to realize that the house went down in value by at least 75k and needed extensive work. So the house was a bad investment. Our credit was really good before we got the house as we were both about 750. After going through bankruptcy and our financial difficulties I was surprised when I seen my credit score is still over 650. I thought it would take a bigger hit then that.
We will be in better shape in the future as it proves that one bad purchase or slip in judgement can have a huge impact for an extended amount of time for recovery. The main thing is learning from the mistake and becoming wiser from it.
Jedi_Knight good luck. It is a long process and is embarrassing at times but so many people go through it. I remember how full the court room was that day when we went everyone was their going through the same thing. Any questions please ask.
KISS
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TranquilDark,
I have never stopped trying. I may have not posted everyday but I have never stopped trying. I will look into the book.
KISS
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HerPapaBear,
I am not sure that we do know what they are. I have looked through this site and can't find them. I also was looking to revisit His Needs, Her Needs but I let someone borough it and I haven't gotten it back yet. You loaned it to someone??? Myself and others have mentioned the importance of studying HNHN and LBer's but you don't see the importance of doing this. I suppose I just can't relate to you. If I felt someone really needed a copy of HNHN, I'd buy them one, they sure as hell' wouldn't get the one I need. One of my cardinal rules for marriage is the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA): Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse. This rule is based on the fact that almost everything one spouse does affects the other. Another way of putting it is that almost everything one spouse does either makes deposits into or withdrawals from the other spouse's Love Bank. That being the case, each spouse should consider the other spouse's interests and feelings before doing anything. It's not only the thoughtful thing to do. It's also the smart thing to do if you want to be in love with each other.
The POJA is required in marriage because we're often tempted to violate it - make decisions that benefit ourselves at the expense of our spouse, and make Love Bank withdrawals when we should be making deposits. When we yield to that temptation, marriage suffers. But when we make decisions with mutual enthusiastic agreement, marriage thrives. Since we're tempted to do what would make our marriage suffer, the POJA is a rule that may be occasionally annoying, but in the end it helps keep us from ruining our marriages. The same can be said for speed limits.
Another cardinal rule for marriage is the Policy of Radical Honesty (PORA): Reveal to your spouse as much information about yourself as you know: Your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes, dislikes, personal history, daily activities and plans for the future.
This rule is based on the fact that honesty serves three very important functions in marriage.
1. Honesty helps couples understand each other so they can make appropriate adjustments.
2. Honesty builds Love Bank balances-honesty and openness is one of the important emotional needs.
3.Honesty prevents the Love Bank withdrawals that dishonesty creates-dishonesty is one of the six most destructive Love Busters.
As is true for the POJA, we need this rule because we're all tempted to break it. And when it's broken, our marriage suffers.
A third cardinal rule for marriage is the Policy of Undivided Attention (POUA): Give your spouse your undivided attention a minimum of fifteen hours each week, using the time to meet each other's intimate emotional needs for affection, intimate conversation, sexual fulfillment, and recreational companionship.
This rule is based on the fact that it takes time to meet the most intimate emotional needs, and unless time is scheduled, they won't be met. 15-20 hrs MINIMUM EVERY WEEK! I have discussed the sexual frustration question with RQ and it is not an issue or part of the reason why we aren't that intimate. I don't think you're being very honest with this. If your wife enjoyed SF with you then it would have been happening every day. She's not climaxing She's not feeling emotionally connected She's triggering during SF It's my guess that you're having sex instead of making love. When we make love we enjoy the intimacy of our partner climaxing more than our own climax. Making love is an art, not an act. What damages most mens ability to make love with their wife is the influences of pornography. We learned how see women as objects and see sex as an act. Porn does tremendous damage to our ability to love our wives and make love with them. You must stop looking at porn, stop fantasizing about sex with anyone other than your wife and stop masturbating. If you are still doing any of these three things, they will stand in the way of learning how to be intimate with your wife. Personally, I think, with time and practice, you can overcome your wife's reluctance with SF once you begin to address these things I've mentioned. I also realize the affects of my affair on our intimacy and what a trigger it is. That is why I didn't want to let RQ know of my frustration. I felt I had to let her know so she had some kind of understanding of of why I was on the couch watching TV at night. I know she has pain I didn't want to add any kind of pressure or expectations on top of that. I was trying to be truthful and I didn't want it to be a big deal. My delivery was definitely wrong. You delivery isn't the issue. IMO, It's your entire idea of meeting EN's. The fact that you get out of bed at all tells me you don't value affection. Affection = snuggling/spooning, caressing, rubbing with no sexual intent at all. Falling asleep in each others arms every night!
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Affection is the #1 need for most women.
Achieving your own goal of SF with RQ will not truly happen until you are consistently giving her front and center of every waking moment of your life.
Plan A is good place for you to be right now, Kiss. Forget your own needs, especially nighttime couch and TV alone. In the mornings when you don't have to go in to work immediately, get up with the kids and take care of breakfast and getting them off to school. Bring RQ breakfast in bed, then lie back down with her if you are still tired.
Your only path to happiness in your marriage is to focus on anticipating her needs and consistently showing her that you can and will make her happy again, every day of her life, and that she can count on you being there for her emotionally, bodily, and physically. You sleeping on the couch = your withdrawl from your wife.
I lived for years in a marriage where my H can count on his two hands how many times we achieved SF in those years, because we kept separate schedules (because of work) and eventually stopped sleeping together for 8 years. To see us now together it's hard to believe we'd ever lived that way; sleeping apart created a chasm between us, opening the door for emotional distance.
Just a thought: Because you had an affair, she may not be able to rest soundly at night unless she can feel you next to her, reassuring her. She may even wake up, no matter how tired, just to see if you're at home. That is an unsettling place to be for any former betrayed wife.
Your UA time with RQ should look the way it did in the beginning when you first fell in love with eachother. Imagine each day that you just met RQ, tell her at every opportunity how much you love her, compliment everything she does no matter how small. Let her know by your actions and not just by your words how much you appreciate her. Romance her and court her.
You can solve this if your effort in meeting her EN's is a 9-10 , like it was when she first fell in love with you, snd not 3 or 4.
IARTQ
Married 31 years, 5 kids, 4 GK
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HerPapaBear,
I am not sure that we do know what they are. I have looked through this site and can't find them. I also was looking to revisit His Needs, Her Needs but I let someone borough it and I haven't gotten it back yet. You loaned it to someone??? Myself and others have mentioned the importance of studying HNHN and LBer's but you don't see the importance of doing this. I suppose I just can't relate to you. If I felt someone really needed a copy of HNHN, I'd buy them one, they sure as hell' wouldn't get the one I need. One of my cardinal rules for marriage is the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA): Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse. This rule is based on the fact that almost everything one spouse does affects the other. Another way of putting it is that almost everything one spouse does either makes deposits into or withdrawals from the other spouse's Love Bank. That being the case, each spouse should consider the other spouse's interests and feelings before doing anything. It's not only the thoughtful thing to do. It's also the smart thing to do if you want to be in love with each other.
The POJA is required in marriage because we're often tempted to violate it - make decisions that benefit ourselves at the expense of our spouse, and make Love Bank withdrawals when we should be making deposits. When we yield to that temptation, marriage suffers. But when we make decisions with mutual enthusiastic agreement, marriage thrives. Since we're tempted to do what would make our marriage suffer, the POJA is a rule that may be occasionally annoying, but in the end it helps keep us from ruining our marriages. The same can be said for speed limits.
Another cardinal rule for marriage is the Policy of Radical Honesty (PORA): Reveal to your spouse as much information about yourself as you know: Your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes, dislikes, personal history, daily activities and plans for the future.
This rule is based on the fact that honesty serves three very important functions in marriage.
1. Honesty helps couples understand each other so they can make appropriate adjustments.
2. Honesty builds Love Bank balances-honesty and openness is one of the important emotional needs.
3.Honesty prevents the Love Bank withdrawals that dishonesty creates-dishonesty is one of the six most destructive Love Busters.
As is true for the POJA, we need this rule because we're all tempted to break it. And when it's broken, our marriage suffers.
A third cardinal rule for marriage is the Policy of Undivided Attention (POUA): Give your spouse your undivided attention a minimum of fifteen hours each week, using the time to meet each other's intimate emotional needs for affection, intimate conversation, sexual fulfillment, and recreational companionship.
This rule is based on the fact that it takes time to meet the most intimate emotional needs, and unless time is scheduled, they won't be met. 15-20 hrs MINIMUM EVERY WEEK! I have discussed the sexual frustration question with RQ and it is not an issue or part of the reason why we aren't that intimate. I don't think you're being very honest with this. If your wife enjoyed SF with you then it would have been happening every day. She's not climaxing She's not feeling emotionally connected She's triggering during SF It's my guess that you're having sex instead of making love. When we make love we enjoy the intimacy of our partner climaxing more than our own climax. Making love is an art, not an act. What damages most mens ability to make love with their wife is the influences of pornography. We learned how see women as objects and see sex as an act. Porn does tremendous damage to our ability to love our wives and make love with them. You must stop looking at porn, stop fantasizing about sex with anyone other than your wife and stop masturbating. If you are still doing any of these three things, they will stand in the way of learning how to be intimate with your wife. Personally, I think, with time and practice, you can overcome your wife's reluctance with SF once you begin to address these things I've mentioned. I also realize the affects of my affair on our intimacy and what a trigger it is. That is why I didn't want to let RQ know of my frustration. I felt I had to let her know so she had some kind of understanding of of why I was on the couch watching TV at night. I know she has pain I didn't want to add any kind of pressure or expectations on top of that. I was trying to be truthful and I didn't want it to be a big deal. My delivery was definitely wrong. You delivery isn't the issue. IMO, It's your entire idea of meeting EN's. The fact that you get out of bed at all tells me you don't value affection. Affection = snuggling/spooning, caressing, rubbing with no sexual intent at all. Falling asleep in each others arms every night! I keep trying to engage you in a discussion..... Any thoughts yet?
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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5 DAYS 
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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When someone isn't serious about recovery, it shows. You can't fake it forever. Eventually, it comes out. I am so saddened, because Kiss really did have a CHANCE, and with every day, it gets smaller and smaller. Eventually, RQ is going to be done, and there will be no going back.
Affairs ruin a BS as it is, but the FR's are just complete TORTURE. Especially when the WS has MB knowledge, and this forum for support. So sad, really. Many posters here were more serious about Kiss's recovery than he was.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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Are you still around Kiss?
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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How many pins would you need to sell to get $400? 'Cause, both home study courses + the online program will run that. Much cheaper than a divorce...
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Seriously? You just don't realize the sentimental value and the investment value of these things. They mean more than just the money HHH.  Anyway, I think Kiss has left the stage.
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Anyway, I think Kiss has left the stage. And this makes me sad beyond words. 
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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