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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Susie, not quite. When he does give me a schedule, I would fill out the UA sheet from the Romantic Love workbook with what hours he has available, but I would leave the planned activities part blank so that we could POJA activities, only we never planned anything to do. Or I would say, well how about we do this or that and he would say OK. Or I would be looking up stuff on line to do while he did something else. It just seemed too one sided to me and I got frustated.

I would like to sit sown together, write down our UA time and plan activities together. But it doesn't happen.

It won't happen if you don't do it. You have to actually DO the program in order for it to work.. Writing Dr Harley will not change that fact.

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
Our program for recovery only works when it's followed. The 15 hours of undivided attention we recommend is an essential part of the program because it provides the opportunity to meet emotional needs that cannot be met any other way. There are lots of excuses for failing to follow that aspect of our program, but in the end, failure to follow it results in a failed recovery.

If we saw that both of you were recovering well, I'd say that you are one of the very rare exceptions to the need to spend 15 hours a week together. But, since you are not recovering well, we can only conclude that your failure to spend enough time together, and make good use of that time meeting each other's emotional needs, is the culprit. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2619668#Post2619668

Do you and your husband understand that this program doesn't work without this step? Doesn't work....

Exactly why I have given up


Because KISS needs to take the initiative and remove the largest roadblock to your recovery; the marriage-wrecking hours required by his employer.


I get it. For the past year I worked 6-7 days a week, between 50-70 hours.

I feel like I'm repeating myself here...


Anyway, until he gets a work schedule that compliments your marriage, recovery will not progress.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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HHH, how did you manage to make time for UA? Does your wife participi in scheduling it. Kiss' hours vary from 9-8, 12-11 or 5-4. So its hard to work the time in.

Ps. Your not the only one who feels like they are repeating themself.


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So lets say he works 70 hours per week.


168 total hours in a week

70 work
10 to and from work
56 sleep
136

That leaves 32 hours to get in 17 hours of UA time, 10 hours for the kids and 5 hours for himself.

So tell me why you and kiss can't schedule 15+ hours of UA time? Because the only thing lacking I see here is willingness.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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RQ, you guys need to make this happen. Even if he has to find another job. His job should complement the marriage, not the other way around. You can't use work hours as an excuse to skip this step. And this is the job of both of you. Both of you together need to figure this out until it is resolved.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
HHH, how did you manage to make time for UA? Does your wife participi in scheduling it. Kiss' hours vary from 9-8, 12-11 or 5-4. So its hard to work the time in.

Ps. Your not the only one who feels like they are repeating themself.


We didn't.

She brought me dinner each night, but we weren't getting the time in. We both work, and our schedules were conflicting.

I did nights last summer, and our UA time was way better, but NGB was not happy with me not being at home in bed at night, so I went back until evenings.

I just got finished with my last regular evening shift, and next week I go to weekend doubles, so I'll potentially be off Mon-Fri.

And I needed to do it, because honestly I'm not in love with my wife right now.

But, I know what we were doing wrong, and I know what I have to do to fix it. So, I pushed for this schedule change until I got it.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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70 work
10 to and from work
56 sleep

That leaves 32 hours


That works if his schedule aligns with RQ's, and/or they can make subtle changes to adjust. Not knowing their schedules, let's say K doesn't have to leave until 8:30am for a 10:00am retail start. If RQ is already gone by 7:00am for her job, that's an additional 7.5 hours off their "UA-available" time.

It's NOT easy. It is however, necessary. As the "King" of sadly putting economic initiative ahead of marital care, I cannot urge them too strongly to make UA their number one priority.

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
70 work
10 to and from work
56 sleep

That leaves 32 hours


That works if his schedule aligns with RQ's, and/or they can make subtle changes to adjust. Not knowing their schedules, let's say K doesn't have to leave until 8:30am for a 10:00am retail start. If RQ is already gone by 7:00am for her job, that's an additional 7.5 hours off their "UA-available" time.

It's NOT easy. It is however, necessary. As the "King" of sadly putting economic initiative ahead of marital care, I cannot urge them too strongly to make UA their number one priority.

It NEEDS to be their priority if they are serious about saving their marriage. And that is what they are here for, right? Anything that comes BEFORE their marriage will eventually destroy it and in this case that means their jobs. If the job interferes with the marriage, it is time to find a new job that doesn't. I would urge them strongly to do this if they intend on staying married.

But I don't get the sense that RQ is taking this very seriously and is not in the least pro-active. A marriage doesn't recover all by magic.

RQ, have you heard Dr Harley's discussions on the radio about avoiding opposite job shifts? He discussed it on the private forum earlier this month with another couple:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
A very important part of a romantic relationship is for a husband and wife to go to sleep and awake together. That way their bodies are coordinated to maximize their energy level as they live their lives as partners. Otherwise they tend to work independently of each other, becoming increasingly incompatible.

When a husband and wife work different shifts, they also have a host of other problems that deeply affect their relationship. So I don't recommend it. If your husband's second shift is so important that he should not give it up, then I advise you to find a second shift to work so that at least you are leaving for work together, coming home together, and living your remaining 8 waking hours together. You would eventually adjust to that way of life so that the most important goals (the quality of your marriage and family), would not be sacrificed for a career.

Even if you were to find a job where you work from home, I'd advise you to do your work during second shift. In other works, you and your husband's sleep-wake cycle should be in sync.

One word of caution, however. People who work second or third shifts try to adjust to normal living on weekends, which gets their physiology all messed up on an ongoing basis. I'd advise you to get used to getting up at noon every day, even on weekends.
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Rocketqueen, this needs to stay on the front burner until it is resolved. I honestly thought you were seriously working the program. What happened here?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
HHH, how did you manage to make time for UA? Does your wife participi in scheduling it. Kiss' hours vary from 9-8, 12-11 or 5-4. So its hard to work the time in.

Ps. Your not the only one who feels like they are repeating themself.

I hope it's okay if I give some ideas here.
A long time ago I read on the board that sometimes the BS needs to push the habits even though you would think that the WS would do it for JC. My partner refused to schedule things with me over the liferime of our marriage. I pushed the planning meeting for a long time, even though I resentedneeding to. But after doing it, we both saw how much better our weeks went and how much more of a team we were. Also, without the planning you will not have good dates which meet the needs. Skill with planning will also make Kiss a better employee and need meeter because he will start to think ahead. Your UA time will not happen properly unless it is agreed to beforehand.

Can you meet him on his lunch hour for planning? That way your bigger blocks of time are not spent planning.
Also, does his lunch break line up with when you get off? You could walk together or make out for 30 min.
A friend told me how when she was dating her husband they would sometimes drive 30 min. just for 30 min. together. Can you take the kids and meet him at a nearby park to do planning? Kids play, you plan. Not totally UA but might work. Take him a treat.
If you can make planning happen and have even 2 or 3 consecutive high UA weeks, I think that you will see a difference in Kiss's motivation to make it happen. You will settle in to relax mode and have fun.

We are not very consistent yet but my husband drives it now and comments on how when we don't plan things go downhill.

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RQ,

I work 70 - 80 hour weeks, DH works 55 - 60 hour weeks. We manage 15 - 20 hours UA time, but we don't have kids.

Viscountess


Me: 30
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Together 5 years
Married the very best man in the world 04/06/2013 after being common law for too long. I'm a lucky woman.
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Originally Posted by DidntQuit
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
HHH, how did you manage to make time for UA? Does your wife participi in scheduling it. Kiss' hours vary from 9-8, 12-11 or 5-4. So its hard to work the time in.

Ps. Your not the only one who feels like they are repeating themself.

I hope it's okay if I give some ideas here.
A long time ago I read on the board that sometimes the BS needs to push the habits even though you would think that the WS would do it for JC. My partner refused to schedule things with me over the liferime of our marriage. I pushed the planning meeting for a long time, even though I resentedneeding to. But after doing it, we both saw how much better our weeks went and how much more of a team we were. Also, without the planning you will not have good dates which meet the needs. Skill with planning will also make Kiss a better employee and need meeter because he will start to think ahead. Your UA time will not happen properly unless it is agreed to beforehand.

Can you meet him on his lunch hour for planning? That way your bigger blocks of time are not spent planning.
Also, does his lunch break line up with when you get off? You could walk together or make out for 30 min.
A friend told me how when she was dating her husband they would sometimes drive 30 min. just for 30 min. together. Can you take the kids and meet him at a nearby park to do planning? Kids play, you plan. Not totally UA but might work. Take him a treat.
If you can make planning happen and have even 2 or 3 consecutive high UA weeks, I think that you will see a difference in Kiss's motivation to make it happen. You will settle in to relax mode and have fun.

We are not very consistent yet but my husband drives it now and comments on how when we don't plan things go downhill.

Thanks didn't quit, these are great ideas and I will see how I can put them into play.

I think it's time for me to grab the wheel in this again and make it happen. I know I felt better, mentally, when we scheduled things and did them. I know that it doesn't happen when we don't.

It is frustrating that I am basically always available (in fact, here I sit and kiss is in bed) but he rarely is. I get lonely crybaby and think too much

I appreciate your input!

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Originally Posted by Viscountess
RQ,

I work 70 - 80 hour weeks, DH works 55 - 60 hour weeks. We manage 15 - 20 hours UA time, but we don't have kids.

Viscountess

Girl, you work too much! Lol it's hard since we work conflicting hours but I'll have to push kiss on the importance of making time for me.

Btw, I was reading one of your earlier threads about UA time....and then it got sidetracked wink

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Rocketqueen, this needs to stay on the front burner until it is resolved. I honestly thought you were seriously working the program. What happened here?

Melody, I hear what you are saying. But I, alone, can only do so much. It's frustrating. A lot of this is in kiss' hands.


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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Rocketqueen, this needs to stay on the front burner until it is resolved. I honestly thought you were seriously working the program. What happened here?

Melody, I hear what you are saying. But I, alone, can only do so much. It's frustrating. A lot of this is in kiss' hands.

What are you doing, though? A lot of it is in your hands too. This is your marriage and this is not something that can just be blown off. What are you doing to make this happen?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Rocketqueen, this needs to stay on the front burner until it is resolved. I honestly thought you were seriously working the program. What happened here?

Melody, I hear what you are saying. But I, alone, can only do so much. It's frustrating. A lot of this is in kiss' hands.

What are you doing, though? A lot of it is in your hands too. This is your marriage and this is not something that can just be blown off. What are you doing to make this happen?

I nag smile


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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
What are you doing, though? A lot of it is in your hands too. This is your marriage and this is not something that can just be blown off. What are you doing to make this happen?

I nag smile

[/quote]

What are you nagging him about? How about sitting down with his work schedule and writing out the schedule for the week? And then you can sit down with him and discuss what you will do on your dates. You can do that, can't you?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Thanks didn't quit, these are great ideas and I will see how I can put them into play.

I think it's time for me to grab the wheel in this again and make it happen. I know I felt better, mentally, when we scheduled things and did them. I know that it doesn't happen when we don't.

It is frustrating that I am basically always available (in fact, here I sit and kiss is in bed) but he rarely is. I get lonely crybaby and think too much

I appreciate your input!
I think too much too. Sometimes that messes with my consistency. What I always come back to is that I decided to give it my best effort to have peace of mind. It is tough to figure out when to hold back/require and when to swallow your pride and drive/push. If the problem really is willingness, I have an idea. Try to plan the week and get JA. If he won't join you then plan anyway. Line up babysitters, then invite him out on dates with you (stinks to be the BS initiator) and then if he is not willing just go without him. This of course is not the final answer, just something that seemed to change things for me. You can't force someone to want to spend time with you. Let him know that you are going on a date no matter what.

My husband had a habit of agreeing and then showing up late for our dates. He would show up hours late after I had jumped through a million hoops to get the kids shipped off. One time we agreed to go out after dropping by the house, and instead he went upstairs and fell asleep. Instead of hounding him I went on the date alone. It worked. Maybe tryI that and if he doesn't show then at least you can get some r&r.

May not be perfect POJA advice but it did seem to work for me. It also turned the tables and let him know how it felt to be waiting and wondering. I know that is not common MB advice but I heard Dr. Harley once mention IB as a last resort alternative when a wife couldn't get her husband motivated. I wish I could find the segment. He was military and prioritized his military buddies over her.

Incidentally, after doing a LOT of sports, looking back, I wouldn't worry about perfection. If the kids miss a game here or there it's not the end of the world. Maybe they won't start or be the the favorite, but they will still learn. UA time/your marriage is more important, especially with your work schedules being so difficult. I wish they had sports leagues which played 1x/ week.

One more idea...can you plan over the phone on work breaks? Same day each week? Your husband may be very uncomfortable planning. The actual mental requirement can be difficult for some, just like complicated math equations are for me. Not trying to make excuses for Kiss, but just wondering if he might be dealing with some type of aversion, instead of laziness or unwillingness.

Last edited by DidntQuit; 04/28/13 02:32 AM. Reason: grammar
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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Hey RQ,

My post was more of an observation that you guys seem to have lost your momentum and my concern is that your new normal will, eventually, become identical to your old one. And if that's ok with you then, hey, who am I to say otherwise? It just seems to be a shame, that's all.

Any movement from kiss on the workfront? Still working lousy hours and no where near changing positions (Florida)?

Northwood, I understand. And you are right, the momentum was lost when I stopped yanking on the rope of that horse. It's a shame but I was getting tired! It's not Ok with me, but I have to to "accept the things I cannot change" and "change the things I can".


Kiss is still working lousy hours though he did call an HR manager down south a couple of days ago but no call back yet.

In the meantime, baseball season has started. Ahhh, baseball season. I got both little ones playing so I'll be spending quite a lot of time at the fields. That will definitely give me something to do while kiss is at work.

I want to address the wording you quote from the Serenity prayer.
I attend AlAnon meetings and am familiar with this.
However it is really applied in the case of an alcoholic or addict, a prayer to say We any change others. We can only change ourselves.

Dr Harley usually encourages spouses of active alcoholics to attend AlAnon meetings. He says they usually end up divorced; AlAnon helps these spouses understand that they are choosing to live in an insane environment.

You are trying to survive your husbands affair.
The only way to do that is to successfully follow Dr Harley's program.
Self improvement will NOT save your marriage.
And the power to change your marriage is 50% under YOUR control.

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Thanks Jedi, duly noted.


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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Girl, you work too much! Lol it's hard since we work conflicting hours but I'll have to push kiss on the importance of making time for me.

Btw, I was reading one of your earlier threads about UA time....and then it got sidetracked wink

Yes, I do work too much! So does DH. We work somewhat the same schedule (I'm 8:30 - 5:00 and he's anywhere from 7:00 - 7:00, but we're primary M-F people).

DH is on the road in a local setting (no overnights, 100 mile radius from our house), so sometimes if he has to go out in the evening to a store I'll ride along. He comes by my office for lunch some days if he's in my area. We go to the gym twice a week together and workout side by side (in fact, we share my Iphone for music. LOL I have a splitter and two sets of headphones). We have a date night that we take regardless of what is going on with work. We spend Saturday afternoon doing something together, sometimes we hike - there's an eagles nest we are watching close by, sometimes we shop. Every evening he hangs out in the kitchen while I cook, usually he cleans up the dishes and chops veggies for me since he doesn't cook. Sometimes he just drinks a beer and we talk. We both have pretty high stress jobs, so some of our UA conversations center around work, but mostly we talk about the pony, astronomy, family, the cats, dinner, beer (hey, he's a beer rep, we can discuss beer for hours now! LOL), current events, etc... So, we spend at least 15 minutes a day cooking. DH will take me to the bus stop sometimes and pick me up, so that's another 40 minutes of UA time. I think we're lucky that DH works a lot from home and I work some from home, and my boss respects that I need family time. That was one of hte driving factors in moving to Ohio, the management respects family needs here.

I'm an insomniac, so I'll come home and spend time with DH, and stay up half the night getting stuff done. We always go to bed together, but most nights I get up in the middle of hte night for a few hours and work.

Now that we're both home all the time it's great. I don't think we would manage our UA time if we had little ones, or our schedules weren't flexible, or we worked opposite shifts.



Me: 30
Him: 39
Together 5 years
Married the very best man in the world 04/06/2013 after being common law for too long. I'm a lucky woman.
7 Cats - Viscount Ashley of Leftfield, Pawkie Petunia, The Timinator, Leo the Lionheart, Fruit Snack, Cloud, and Barret
And our very lucky pony, Starbucks
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