Why are you not taking your wife out on dates? You are making 1% deposits with what you are doing. They help, but recovery is going to be stalled. You'll get that spark back in 100 weeks instead of a few weeks. If you can hold out that long.

We have 2 dates planned for this weekend. Now that our son's Jeep is back on the road we'll have more time together.

What are you doing for those 3 hours a day of UA?

The examples you gave were good INSURANCE for a recovered marriage. The lovebank deposits they make are relatively small compared to the Intimate Emotional Needs met during UA. Don't make the mistake that some people do of thinking that the lovebank deposits made outside of UA can substitute for UA. If you don't get the UA hours, your marriage suffers regardless of any other lovebank deposits you have made that week.

Protect your UA time with vengeance.

Oh, okay! Good! A lot of people try to skimp on UA time and then wonder why the program doesn't work.

By the way, it sounds like you made some Family Commitment love bank deposits. Dr. Harley recommends scheduling 15 hours there, as well.

We fully understand the need for UA time. Sometimes, life gets in the way as many know.

Family time with DS12 is pretty easy but we have a DS19 & DS17/almost 18 so getting time with them is tough. They work, girl friends, school, etc so we do what we can when we can.

UA time consists of walks at the park, working out at home, playing cards (& talking), reading HNHN & Love Busters and discussing them together. We also grocery shop together every week which is something we never did. She always did it alone during her day off but now we do it together. It helps her and it keeps us within our budget. A win-win for both of us.

Pulling this back here from RQ's thread....

How/why can she change her behaviors if she cannot recognize them as part of the problem?

She will change her behaviors when changing them is less painful than whatever sanction you commit (and convince her) to applying should she continue them.

That is what snapped Bride out of her fantasy: "If you ever do this..., or this..., or that..., there will no longer be a marriage to work on."

What is not prohibited, is encouraged! (Wow, used that twice in one week!)

Thats basically the way our conversation ended up last night. I told her that continuing to do this was crossing my boundaries and I was not going to live that way.

Wow, I'm writing this post to you, on your thread, because I think I see one of the obstacles that is preventing the spark of love from returning to you and your wife. When the spark hasn't returned, you have to do two things:

* get objective help to make sure you are doing everything right
* keep doing the right thing longer

One of my absolute biggest mistakes was thinking that I was following this plan correctly and wondering why it was not working and why my wife was not onboard. The truth was I was making a lot of mistakes I could not see until I got more experienced help to explain it to me.

Let me put a couple of things together for you, because I'm worried you are making a mistake you do not see (and it happens to be one of the same mistakes I made):

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2723475#Post2723475


http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2723876#Post2723876


I've left my wife's analysis there verbatim for you. All of these things you are saying are disrespectful to your wife. They roll off of your tongue incredibly easily, showing that you probably have a real habit of being disrespectful to her.

Believe it or not, disrespect is a part of the spectrum of abuse and control, as described by Dr. Harley.

With this constant pressuring on your wife to accept your advice, going so far as to judge her of "independent behavior" for simply having a different perspective about whether or not to accept your advice, it's going to be impossible for big love bank deposits to be made. It's like filling a tank with holes in it. Her love bank will make her want to avoid you, rather than wanting to spend time with you and care for you.

She may not even understand why, and she may not even be able to tell you. Both of you may just conclude the program doesn't work; you tried your best, didn't get the spark, and are just stuck with life as it is. In fact she may become very averse to the program if you continue to misuse Marriage Builders phrases like "Independent Behavior" to refer to her doing something that Marriage Builders advocates: not giving in to demands and disrespect.

Marcos

I'm reposting this here so I dont keep Hijacking RQ thread

I dont know if I'm like Tom in that story. I hope not. Are you guys saying that I should never offer her help? I dont do this on everything. This isn't a daily thing where I feel like she needs my help on everything. This job was important to her and I saw that she was struggling with how to get the info she needed so I offered some suggestions. She does a lot on her own and should have more confidence (her words not mine) but doesnt when it comes to this kind of stuff.

For instance, She has a black belt in karate, she is an EMT and firefighter, she has had 3 kids and is a GREAT mom, she is good at helping others get organized, she is great in bed. We used to run a karate school before our kids were born and she always taught the throwing techniques because she's way better at that than I am. She doesn't like to fight so I always taught that part. Did I mention that she is great in bed?

What she doesn't have is much experience in the corporate world and struggles with confidence when she has to deal with corporate folks. That is why I offered my help with this, because I work in the corporate world and do this stuff everyday.

I don't offer this kind of help all the time because she's so good at most things. However, whenever I do offer it, it gets disregarded... When this happens, the result is usually the same as this time. In hindsight, when we look back, it would have worked out much better if she had considered what I had offered. Thats why I consider it to be an IB and not a DJ.

If 2 people have to let each other "just figure it out on their own" aren't we just encouraging IB? Is just listening all the support I can/should give? I'm struggling with this.

The key difference between a request and a demand

is how you react when you receive "no" for an answer.

How do you react when your wife doesn't take one of your suggestions? This is how you react:


You resent that she didn't take your suggestions. It hurts you for her to decline. You don't put out suggestions that she can take or leave - you harbor resentment over her not doing things your way.

This is our key, as observers, that you are being disrespectful to her.

Take it from me - this is the same way I used to hurt Prisca.

What you offered was not merely suggestions because you became very upset that she did not do what you told her to do. That makes it a DJ and very likely a demand, as well. If you only offered suggestions and help, you would not feel so upset when she chose not to do it your way.

This was a major DJ/demand on your part.

It is not IB for her to not give in to that.

But... I didn't become openly upset with her over this. I never said to HER that I resented it. I just let it go as I have done in the past. The fact that she didn't do it my way was not the big deal to me. What is the big deal is that she has literally never given any of my suggestions any weight. They have always been summarily ignored. I know that sounds like a DJ because I used the word never, but it has actually NEVER been different.

If someone said to you that you should take a different route home tonight because traffic is backed up for 10 miles and they ignored you, would you care that they were stuck in traffic for hours. If they ignored you the next time you told them the same thing, then what? What if you were in the habit of checking the traffic before leaving work and they never gave your suggestion ANY weight and just ignored you. Now, what if this person that was ignoring you was your wife and you had to wait for her several hours to get home everytime this happened. Would it be a DJ on your part or an IB on her part. What if your advice was simply to listen to the traffic report before leaving and she ignored that too? DJ or IB? Would you feel as though she was just ignoring you for some other reason?

Thats where I am. I was very gentle with her in this conversation and NEVER accused her of anything nor did I tell her what to do. I vented a little here and maybe that came across as the way I was treating her. It's not. I still dont see this as a major demand.

Does this person have any valid reason for not wanting to drive home the way you suggest?
Careful.
Tricky question.

Your way is not inherently right, even if it seems right to you. There is another perspective here. And it's just as valid as yours.

What about if your spouse doesn't wear her seat belt? And this concerns you because of the law, and because of her safety. You've asked and asked her to wear it, but she still doesn't. Is she ignoring you? Or are you going about it wrong? Dr. Harley talks about how to handle this situation. It's called Respectful Persuasion.

If you are thinking this way about her, it will show eventually in the way you treat her, even if you think it won't. She'll see it. And it will hinder your progress.

You did tell her what to do. You made it look like a suggestion, but because you became upset that she didn't do it your way shows us that you were making a demand.

Anytime your spouse cannot say no to your suggestion, you are making a demand. If it upsets you that she didn't do it your way, it's a demand.

I suggest you reread the chapter in Lovebusters about DJs and Demands, especially the part on Respectful Persuasion. You'll see the seatbelt example in there.

What's wrong with that?

Now that I have been through Marriage Builders, I would recognize that it is their decision to make, not mine.


I'd put down "being late" on our annoying habits worksheet and prioritize it among other annoying habits. Prisca would decide how to avoid being late, whether that meant taking a different route or leaving sooner or asking someone for advice.

But you DO resent it. You resent it because she didn't do things the way you told her to. That resentment will eat away at your marriage.

Here's what Dr. Harley told me about such situations:


Your wife has the right to decline your suggestions! If you care about her, you need to make it "no big deal" for her to decline. Whether she considers 1% of your suggestions, 100%, or 0%, that is her choice to make, and if she doesn't feel free to make it, she's going to feel TRAPPED with you, not IN LOVE with you.

Prisca will not do anything, even if it's in my best interest, if it feels like a demand.

It sounds to me like you are under the same illusion I was: that if your wife really cared about you, she would give more consideration to your ideas.