Can you direct BIL to MB?

I have been thinking about that as well as ordering him a copy of Surviving An Affair. Of course given my SIL's history (3 affairs) I wonder if she is capable of change. But on the slim chance that she can change he needs all the help he can get.

Thank you for the note. I will do it.

Send him this, for starters:

NEVERGUESSED'S BETRAYED HUSBAND SURVIVAL KIT

1- KEEP ALL THESE ARRANGEMENTS SECRET FROM YOUR WAYWARD WIFE!
2 � Put a keylogger on any computer you can access that she might use.
3 � Put a spy program on any cell that she might use. ("Eblaster" can cover #4 as well.)
4 � Put a GPS on her car, reporting to your computer.
5 � Put a VAR in her car, and in any room she might use to take "personal" calls
6 � Get a mini-audio-recorder, and have it in your possession and "on" whenever in her presence.
7 � Put together an e-address list of anyone who might have influence on her � parents, siblings (sisters, especially), coworkers, college friends, clergy, hairdresser, anyone.
8 � Put together a similar list for the POSOM.
WHEN YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE,
9 � Put together the electronic evidence for each AP.
10 - Write a cover note for your wife's contacts, to the tune of: "I must unhappily inform you that my wife, XXXXXX, is carrying on an illicit affair with YYYYYY. I am hoping to recover our marriage, and ask if you have any influence over her, to urge her to abandon her cheating lifestyle and return to me and our family. Her cell number is 111-222-3333"
11 � Write a similar note to POSOM's contacts.
12 � Send out both packages, to all contacts at one time.
13 � Brace yourself.

Update:

My text to BIL- I'm sorry for what you are going through now. I would like to send you a book that really helped me. You may want to check out Marriage Builders Radio (there's a free app on your phone). And if you listen to it today you will see the first subject is very applicable to you and SIL. They repeat the show until a new one airs at 1 M - F. If you need support and encouragement then check out the Marriage Builders website. You can post questions on there and you will get great advice from people who have made it through an affair. I found this website a couple of weeks in and it really helped, so I wanted you to know about it right away. There is a forum about infidelity specifically. We are praying for you.

SIL's text: Believe it or not, were both fine. We are in DC for the weekend celebrating mothers day and would appreciate it if you would both leave us alone.

My text to BIL: Got SIL's text- we will never contact you again. Cancelled book order.

Had not gotten around to sending NC letter to SIL, but I guess there is no need now. It's only a matter of time now.

I doubt very much if that's the message BIL would have sent to someone reaching out to help him in probably the worst crisis he has ever experienced.

She intercepted the first text and so your message did not reach BIL, and yet you sent a second message by the same means. She intercepted that too.

If you really want to reach him, you are going to have make sure you make personal contact with him.

BIL apparently got the message and replied- Good morning. Happy Mother's Day. Thank u for thinking of me n what has happened. I am very saddened by your husband n my wife's relationship being destroyed more than anything n our family being so torn apart. He and her have talked to me and we are fine. She is just very upset w him for telling me instead of letting her. I hope time can fix all this our family.

Guess I should still send the book, huh? I just don't know if I will get anywhere if I text him anymore. I really don't deserve any more crap from SIL. I guess I could block her number from texting me.

Suggestions?

I would block that b and then respond to him with:

"SIL is very upset with H because she didn't want you to know. If she was serious about telling you herself, she would have done that. Yes, you can fix this if you come to the Marriage Builders forum and get some help. SIL is gaslighting you and unless you get some help from skilled, experienced people, her affairs will continue. We are here to help you protect yourself. I will send you the book."

You need to stick it to that hoe and reach your hand out to your BIL. Let her know you see right through her gig and don't give a crap if she is mad about it.

and maybe a follow up to BIL:

"p.s. sadly, we have made a decision to never associate with SIL again because of the destructive things she has done to our family and her own. She has caused irreparable damage to her relationship with us."

And ask him to acknowledge receipt of the book, so you know she didn't intercept that as well.

I can send the book and a letter to his work, so she won't be able to intercept them.

How could he be fine less than three days after finding out his wife's been having an affair for four years. Of course she probably lied to make herself not look so bad.

My husband wants nothing to do with either of them.

Radio Clip of Help_needed's Show
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

Oh the drama. Abbreviations M (me) H (my husband) SIL and BIL. I've kept the names from my point of view as I think it makes it easier. If you all want an update:

BIL text to me: I want to know what you know. They (SIL and her OM) both swear there was no affair but there friendship crossed the line. So please enlighten me!

My text to BIL: I'm sorry BIL. I personally know how frustrating it is to be lied to and nobody wants to help or get involved. While SIL didn't discuss OM with me, from what H has told me it sounds like she is still lying to you. H had told me a long time ago that SIL had liked somebody but only recently told me what actually happened.

Since she was so furious with H for telling you about the affair I think it best to give her a chance to tell you the truth about the details. I will tell you if she won't. The facts dribbled in from H about his affair with his OW over a period of weeks/months and that was excruciating. The sooner she tells you everything the better. Not sure what you are trying to differentiate between: an affair (assume you mean physical affair) and a friendship crossing the line (emotional affair). Both are wrong. WHAT HAS SHE TOLD YOU?

Text from BIL to me: She says it was just a friendship and that she did cross the line by kissing him n she got the (secret) phone to stay n touch w him because she did like him n knew I didn't want her talking to him. They both swear that was it. She will never tell me more so I'm asking u guys to tell me

I think u r right. And she is being so wonderful right now I don't want to ruin it by obsessing over things. I also don't want to put u guys n the middle more. Things r so bad between y'all n SIL now it doesn't need to be worse. Thanks

My text to BIL: You can't rebuild a marriage on top of lies. She needs to come clean or you will wind up right back here. Healing can't start until you know everything- trust me, I'm going through it now. I will talk to H tonight and figure out how best to proceed. We don't plan to ever see SIL again, so that's not really a concern at this point. I don't want to see you get hurt more.

My text to BIL next day: How are you doing today? Did SIL tell you any more? Did you get my email? H is hoping that given the time SIL will be honest, but he and I feel you need to have all the facts one way or the other. You all can get through this. It takes a lot of work, patience and grace, but it can be done and things can be better than before.

BIL text to me: I'm fine. We r doing well. We haven't discussed it any further. Supposed to go to counseling soon. But she would flip if she knew I was talking w y'all. That's why I asked H to email. She admitted to liking him n wanting to talk to him but they swear there wasn't a physical relationship. But I know the emotional part caused us trouble n we will be discussing that more n in counseling I hope.

My text to BIL: Ok. I can just email you if that is safer. Did you get my email (about radical honesty)? Based on what you said she told you she is not being honest with you. H will call and talk to you. We think its better than an email if you have questions.

BIL text to me: H had told me they had only kissed

My text to BIL: There was more than that. Very similar to what H and his OW did physically.

BIL text to my husband: This is crazy. It feels like he said she said games. This is nuts. SIL says it was nothing like what u n OW did like M (me) says. So just give me the facts n be done w it because if I keep talking w y'all my marriage would be over she is pissed at u guys.

My text to SIL: I am so glad that I know the entire truth about H and OW so that I don't have to constantly wonder about what happened. We now have a firm foundation on which to strengthen our marriage. So please put on your big girl panties and tell BIL the truth. You will be better off in the long run.

SIL text to me: I am responding to you and you can forward to H as I no longer have your contacts on my phone. I have deleted them. All I will say is that you asked that I not "contact" you while you were going through your problem and I did as you requested even though I was not to "blame" as you so much want to think.

You are not helping and as far as I'm concerned, I no longer have a brother so I'd appreciate it if you would focus on your own problems and your own marriage.

My text to SIL: YOU contacted me numerous times via text, so I'm not sure how you can claim that you didn't contact me. I have the texts to prove it. (Of course I don't know your motives. Perhaps you were just reporting back to OW.) And you did encourage H to be with OW. While nothing excuses H's behavior you contributed to the affair.

Telling the truth to BIL would help your marriage in the long run. Despite everything, H still loves you and wants the best for you. Unfortunately you both disagree on how to go about that.

And for the record I don't have any problems and my marriage is better than ever. The only negative moments are when I think of what you and your best friend did. H had the good sense to see that what he was doing was wrong, repent, tell me the truth and apologize repeatedly. And I have forgiven him. BIL truly loves you. Give him some credit and tell him the truth. I bet he will forgive you too.

My husbands email to BIL (BIL didn't want to talk to him): You are right about this being crazy. It is crazy for you to think that your marriage is over because you are talking to me. What does that tell you? That she is not willing to truly work this out. She is not taking ownership of what she did. She is finding any way possible to take your focus off the real problem.

The real problem is that she is lying to you and has been for three years! The question is, are you going to believe me or her? You told M that my affair with OW was our problem and to keep you out of it. Now i am not only in the middle of your problem but seem to be the only one trying to help.

I have nothing against SIL and am not doing this as any kind of "revenge". I have seen over the last five months what it truly takes to survive an affair. That is what SIL did, had an affair. I don't understand this stepping over the friendship line. I did not get involved until I heard that she really wanted to work things out. Well, that means the truth has to be told before you can ever begin to trust her again.

The truth has to come from her because she has to truly want to make this work. If she continues to lie to you now about what she did, then she will continue to lie in the future and this could happen all over again.

The reason I have stopped communicating with her is because she encouraged my affair with OW. Yes, I made the decision but she did not try to stop me, instead she told me how OW liked me and thought I was hot and once she knew about the affair, she told me she had never seen OW so happy and how great it would be for the four of us to hang out all the time. I cannot put M through that kind of pain again being around SIL knowing that she is still friends with OW and would rather see me with OW. I have chosen to strengthen my marriage at any cost even if that means I will no longer have a relationship with SIL.

I tell you this for two reasons:
1- to let you know what really happened in my situation
2- to let you know what it truly takes to survive this
I have the unique perspective of being the adulterer and I can tell you that I didn't want to tell M the whole truth in the beginning because I didn't want to hurt her any more. The truth is, that I told her more and more over the next month and that was a lot worse than if I had told her everything up front. She basically had to start all over again trying to trust me. I feel like this is what SIL is doing. She thinks it will just make things worse if she tells you the whole truth.

She is also gas lighting you, meaning, she is trying to make you feel guilty for talking to us and wanting to know what really happened. I can tell you that from what I know, it was more than a kiss and they didn't have sex because OM couldn't go through with it. How is that any different than me and OW? The details in between are up to SIL to tell you if you want to know. I truly think you love my sister and will try to make this work.

Changes will need to be made from both of you I'm sure. SIL is going to have to figure out that love is not a feeling, it is an act. "Being happy" like SIL likes to say a lot, is just worldly and selfish. You do things for someone because you love them and want to make THEM happy. The first act is to tell the truth to show her love. I am doing this out of love because I know my sister needs help. I pray she will someday see that. In the meantime I will pray for your marriage that you two can figure things out.

Wow. What a couple of days. I emailed BIL links to marriage builders. SIL is a real piece of work. She missed their first counseling session because she was hungover. My husband called his mother to see if she would tell BIL the truth if he asked. I figured that would get us out of the middle of this mess if someone else told him the truth but unfortunately she said she wouldn't know how she would answer until the time came. Geeze.

I'm thinking they won't be contacting us again. Sorry this was so long. Any suggestions on what else to do? I think at this point we have done all we can.

helpneeded, wouldn't it have been much easier if you would have just told him the entire truth about the affair when he first contacted you? You could have avoided all of this drama and ensured he got the full truth right away.

Why not write up the facts that you and your husband know about her affair and email them to him?

Fantastic response from you and your H.

Maybe one last email from your H laying out the facts he knows about SIL's affair. Then BIL at least has the facts and because he is asking you guys for them.

Another thing is do you guys know who's SIL's OM is?

Great job help_needed

How will he get the truth?

Yeah, I totally don't get this insistence that your wayward SIL come clean to your BIL. MB does not require that so much as that he KNOWS.

Just tell tell him and be done with it.

Well, let's see... I am practicing the POJA, so if my H is not enthusiastic about detailing everything he knows, then I am not going to do it and I won't force him. I don't want the SIL's issues to negatively impact our marriage. I did kind of mess up POJA when I said what SIL and OM did was very similar to what my H and his OW did. I threw out a pretty big clue with that one remark. And it made H kind of mad because we didn't discuss it first.

While I would happily tell what I know ( which isn't that much) my H doesn't want to for a few reasons. He feels it would be best if his sister was the one to tell. Plus since it is her word against his, he's not even sure BIL will believe the truth. And finally he's not willing to put the final nail in the coffin of his relationship with his sister. I know, I know, what does it matter if he has agreed to never see her again? I guess he is an optimist and hopes she will have a revelation, see her evil ways and repent. And then they could have a relationship again if she begged for my forgiveness.

All I know is that they messed around (I believe she gave him oral sex). The OM couldn't go through with sex for whatever reason. SIL wanted to have sex. And the only other piece of information I have (which I think would hurt the most) is that the only way SIL can stand to have sex with BIL was to picture the OM when they had sex.

Given that I am practicing POJA, how should I proceed? I don't want to nag husband to death. He just wants to be done with it.

UPDATE: I read your responses to my H. He checked his email this morning and BIL emailed him:

I appreciate it but I can tell u that she won't be telling me the details because she thinks that just hurts me unnecessarily n he is so scared he swears on his sons life that nothing happened n nothing is going on which is not now of course. I don't know if they went to his house n got naked or if she gave him a bj or what. Can only imagine n deal w it I guess. But I guess I will never know. Thanks

2nd email from BIL: We r leaving for the beach today n I hope this week together away from everything will help also. She has been great the last few weeks n says she feels closer to me than ever n that you never really know how strong a marriage you have until it is put to the test n some way. Not meaning just an affair but any storm. Like FIL I hope God can heal our entire family somehow n time

My H's email (which I think crossed paths with BIL's second email): Those two things you mentioned are what I know about. Kinda weird that u mentioned those exact acts. I would appreciate it if u didnt say I told u. Guess it doesn't really matter at this point but would prefer it that way. So sorry about all this.

So it is done, finally!! Guess my clue was big enough. :-)

I can't tell from reading this if this BH was told all the facts that you know about the affair. If there is anything else, then just tell him what you know, just facts none of the commentary. If your H doesn't want to do it, then you can do it yourself.

As far as your H's insistence that his sister tell her BH the truth: A wayward is not going to tell their spouse the truth. THey are going to spin and gaslight and deny. It is completely unrealistic expectation.