She would like to finish the interior of the garage... That may be an idea.

That's a very good idea.

Wow, look at the progress since then. You were asking how to Plan A an unengaged wife. It looks like you've gotten past that problem. The procedure going forward is still essentially the same: make massive love bank deposits, and avoid withdrawals!

Did you ever track this down?

I hesitate to talk about this here, but I'm struggling with anger and resentment about this recent SF thing and what prompted my W to post.

Here is what happened from my perspective:

Sunday night, we were laying in each others arms in bed after spending our UA time together. We were discussing our hours for the week and who we were going to get to come next Saturday because our regular babysitter is not available.

She mentioned that we could shorten our date night to three hours since it was "sex night" and we could spend the fourth hour at home. Her concern was that we get home too late and she is tired. So taking that concern into consideration, I countered with the idea that instead of losing that hour, we could just start our date an hour earlier and then we would get home an hour earlier.

And then I made my mistake from her perspective. I squeezed her a little tighter and said (with a smile) "You know I bet we could squeeze in a little UA time right now." She responded to that with "It really bothers me when you ask for sex on a non-sex night."

I didn't say anything in return that was bad, I actually don't remember saying anything at all, though I'm sure I must have said something in response. At any rate, that ended the conversation. But inside I was incredibly hurt by the statement. I'm sure she could tell from my body language which prompted the post to the forum.

I sympathize with your feelings.
I was in a sexless marriage and sex became a forbidden fruit and it was very frustrating for me.

All I can say is: Work on the MB program and sex will not be so mechanical for her in the future (absent any physical problems).

Keep filling the love bank and avoiding love busters.

Your wife said it bothers her for you to bring up SF on a non-planned SF night. So don't do that again. That's the simple answer. I know this must have hurt you to your core; on the other hand, your comment/request didn't do anything for your wife.

She was being honest with you and doing it in the right way by telling you it bothered her.

The alternatives would have been for her to keep quiet and ignore your comment. Or she could have kept quiet and did what you wanted, even though it wasn't what she wanted.

Neither of the above two alternatives are good ones, so she did the right thing in being radically honest.

Until your wife is well past the romantic love threshold, hold off on SF except for the scheduled nights.

The clear implication from Dr Harley's article The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage? is that you should stick to the pattern of scheduling sex as part of date nights. Sex for most women is most wanted and fulfilling when it is part of an event:

"Women, on the other hand, don't usually experience the same sexual craving as men do. So for them, sex has a much different purpose. It's usually a small part of a larger whole that helps them create intimacy with the man they love. For most women, the answer to the question, why should we have sex, is that sex is necessary for emotionally bonding that builds on affection and intimate conversation. I call what most women do to achieve that objective a "sexual event."

For some couples, already in love and with few or no marital problems (such as recovery from an affair), spontaneous sex is welcomed by both spouses. There would be no problem with your spontaneous proposition for some couples in a state of intimacy (as in the "three states of marriage").

However, your wife may be at the "female" end of the spectrum that Dr Harley describes, where most women want sex to be part of a an event:

"Based on a wife's perspective that sex should be a bonding experience that builds on affection and intimate conversation, she would have a much different answer to the question, "how should we have sex?" She would want sex to be part of a much larger romantic experience. Dining, dancing, and moonlit walks, all generously infused with expressions of care, are examples of the foreplay that would lead her to a fulfilling sexual experience."

You said that you made your proposition "after spending our UA time together", so from your perspective, it might seem that you had already created 3 of the requirements for the sexual event; conversation, affection and RC. However, you might not have met these adequately from your wife's point of view, in which case she might not have been bonded enough to have sex with you.

I suggest that, rather than risk being rejected and feeling "incredibly hurt", you use the guidelines suggested in the article to increase sexual freuqency if the current arrangement is not frequent enough for you: that is to say, negiotiate a schedule of four date nights with SF for all nights. For the moment, until your wife's feelings of love have imcreased substantially, do not ask for unscheduled sex.

I am afraid I did not, but it was a wonderful post, and I need to invest the time it will take to find it.

Another post this morning prompted me to remember to mention an affectionate act my wife loves: foot rubs. This one blurs the boundary between symbolic and concrete. In situations where my wife has been in withdrawal, she's often been open to a foot rub, and it's deposited love bank units.

Results may vary depending on your wife's feet! (If they are like mine, a foot rub is more likely to get you in a lot of trouble!)

SC & LWFH

I suppose the advice you are relaying is the correct course. I realize am very sensitive in this area under the circumstances.

If you remove the requests for spontaneous sex for now, you will reduce the risk of having your very understandable sensitivity bruised.

I think I read that you have scheduled 3 SF sessions per week, as part of your dates. See if you can negotiate a fourth session as part of a date. That should help with your physical frustrations to some degree.

I'll just say that this goes WAY beyond frequency, physical frustrations, and a bruised sensitivity.

If you want to change that, you need to follow the plan. Did you read the article that SugarCane linked to? What did you think of it?

Well what, then? I was trying to help, FTF. You sound as if I just insulted you.

I've been through my H's long-term affair with about 10 D Days, during which the affair was taken further underground to hide it from me. I've coped with a so-called recovery in which, for example I spent a weekend away with my H while he travelled abroad, only to find out many months later from OWH that OW was invited into my hotel bed MINUTES after I left it to go back to London to work. I've had my H leave my daughter on her 15th birthday to work in his office (kids have to do "work experience" at 15 over here) while he told me he was going to an official work meeting abroad, while in reality he was travelling to an exotic European country to stay in OWH hotel for the night. I've discovered that he bought her an engagement ring. That she left her marital home and get a job in another country to wait for my H to leave me. I've discovered horrors beyond the experience of most affairs on this forum.

When I say "your very understandable bruised sensitivities", I'm showing empathy with you for the worst experience you'll probably ever go through. If you resent my advice because words for emotions are difficult to find at times, I'll leave you to it.

I was just responding to this point when I talked of your "bruised sensitivities".

I see I touched a nerve with you and for that I am sorry.

I've read that article many times. What I was reacting to was the premise that SF is mainly a "release". Well, if I just wanted a release I could get that any number of ways.

But what did you think of the suggestions in the article?

The article says a LOT more than that.

I think it is very convincing and probably true.

The sticking point in our situation would be that my wife would say that she doesn't want an "event" with me. She would say her problem of not wanting to have sex with me has little to do with a lack of mental foreplay. She is just simply not sexually attracted to me. End of story.

How would I know that? Because she says the words "I am not sexually attracted to you and I don't ever remember being sexually attracted to you."