as all of you are pointing out, he agreed, but his ex wife is still there. It's one of the reasons I am sitting here thinking big deal, why bother.

I don't feel like fighting the guy on every thing. I want simple agreement and follow through.

He agreed to the poly, but has yet to set up a session.

I have not agreed to meet him in person and discuss. Will re-inforce the social site requirement, but tbh to people here, I pretty much don't believe at this point he will be honest and upfront over the long haul. I don't know if it is pessimism due to how low I am or if I am just done.

Atlanta, are you back together?

No. I accepted the facebook request but have not talked to him there, I asked to keep communication through email for now and he has respected that. He is at his mother's.
I wanted to talk here about things before I agree to talk in person or anything else.

I don't know if the hurt is MY problem to handle at this point, but everytime I think of him mocking me over the anxiety meds I was taking to DEAL WITH HIS ACTIONS and he KNEW IT, I want to punch him in the face. Everytime I think of how hurt and humiliated I feel over his actions after the baby was found out, I feel so much anger, hurt and disgust if him, I can barely bring myself to the idea of even talking to him again.

Is this something I would get over IF he follows through properly?

I honestly don't know. It would take a long time and he would have to make serious, dramatic changes. Do you really see that happening?

This guy has so much baggage that I would cut my losses and move on if I were in your shoes. You will always have to deal with the presence of his OC and worry about his XW. It might be much easier in the short term and long term to just get out now and find someone who could make you happy. Its not like you have children together.

This is worse than physical assault, IMO.

I agree with Melody. I would cut my losses and divorce him. If he's willing to make radical changes, and they will have to be radical, he will pursue that without you having to pull him along.

You shouldn't have to pull him along.

He has written to say that he felt driven away from me due my AO. He says it would be nice to have a conversation where I stay calm when the I am upset.

I never got upset with him until it was clear he was lying to me and cheating and playing mind games.

I didn't know what to do. I tried to talk and reason and he would hang up on me, walk out, disappear, refuse to respond. And I eventually would get upset over those antics and go into panic and raging.

I asked him what kind of response did he expect from me when I found I had been cheated on, a hidden baby appearing out of nowhere and all the other things.

What should my response have been? Calm. Was everyone here all nice and calm about it?

My mistake was being dumb and thinking I could take it and stay calm, because I did start out calm.

He tells me now that only way through it is me staying calm.

He wants us to be all nice and calm and marriage builder methods. That is great.

Except we have a problem. I am so hurt and angry and utterly baffled at his essentially murdering my life.. and now he gets his chance to be a better man.. he is relieved to do it.

What do I do with my hurt and anger. I am just really starting to feel it. I was numbed out before. In shock, just holding on day to day. I think he is getting off easy.

I don't get any sense at all that he has learned any humility. He is in no position to place conditions. He should be grovelling and apologising and pleading and grateful that you are willing to even give him 5 minutes of your time to listen to what he is going to do to try to convince you to stay in the marriage.

You are right to be outraged, not just at what he has done but also that he is still trying to blame you for his horrible cruel behavior.

He should get counselling on how to be a better husband with one of the Harleys. If they can't set him straight, no one can.

Dr Harley does not suggest staying in a marriage where you are upset all the time because you are being abused. He suggests SEPARATION. That is the MB solution. Dr Harley would suggest that you stay separated until he changes the behavior that upset you. Has he made a radical change in his behavior?

Will he stop upsetting you?

I can't tell if he made a radical change. I don't know if he is simply trying to tell me the condition he felt at that time that at the time he felt justified his actions in order to communicate to me something or if this is just further attempts to to deflect responsibility and screw me around.

I can tell you, though, I woke up this morning, and I feel a combination of pain and a desire to tear him to pieces and tell him what a sick POS I think he is.

So obviously I am not in a state where I can attempt much of anything. I re-read his words and he is focusing on telling me that ME staying calm is the key. Maybe that is something I should be doing but that is NOT the key.

You need to know that you will be upset and will not be able to control your emotions in an abusive relationship. So unless he can stop all the abuse you shouldn't subject yourself to him.

Did you tell him he cant stay married to you if he has any contact with his XW?

Based on the past, the feelings you are going through are very normal. A is the worst possible thing a person can do to someone they are married to.

I too struggled, and still do sometimes, with anger because of all the things you mentioned above. We are 1.5yrs into R after my FWW 9mo A followed by a 9mo FR.

We are following Dr Harley's program. What I can share with you is that there are MANY ups and downs. I have to keep using my head not my feelings to plow through the difficult days.

R is measured in years not days/months. I try not to make any decisions at my lowest lows or highest highs. Being cognizant of the moments and realizing what is going has really helped.

No one can tell you how quickly to heal. No one. Your H CAN do things to ease the pain (follow every detail of MB).

What you can control is You. All LB's are a choice...on both sides.

and his bullcrap starts back up again this morning.

i give up.

he won't do things to ease the pain. as soon as he sees it and I try to talk about it, he invalidates me, tells me I refuse to control myself, then he leaves, hangs up, walks off AFTER making sure I know the real problem is ME. I am not getting that upset until he does. He says it is useless to talk to me when I am venting. I am not venting. I am trying to tell him how I feel and how he is effecting me.

It's not an AO until he shuts me down and leaves and refuses a response. Then it turns into how well he can ignore me and it ramps the upset up so high, I lose control of myself because I am already hurting and in pain. Where do I take it, where do I go with it? I get so upset at these things at this point I don't know what to do with it.

It might be a better idea to write out your complaints in an email. Let him know what he is doing that upsets you.

Ok, I can tell you what he says. He told me he doesn't like my style of complaints. He said today I am just dragging up "sh** from the past".

So basically this is what he wants. He says he can only work with me if I stay calm. He wants the past to be the past. he doesn't want to talk about any of it and we need to move on.

Basically I was triggered this morning. I was cleaning out an old email account and found a mail from his ex wife mocking and laughing at me because she is pregnant. I had confronted him at that time asking if it was true and got this speech about how he cant be with someone who doesn't trust him, and how this mistrust is something he can't help me with because it is in MY HEAD and it is "your fight, honey to overcome it."

So I am immediately dropped into this sudden intense pain and anger over the mind games, the lies, the baby.

So I respond to him that I am not over it. And he comes up with how out of control I am and how he can't talk to me if I don't stay in control. So he wants me to be the bad one for being upset. So I try to talk to him and say look it is REASONABLE to be upset from those things. He stonewalls me calls it dragging up "sh*t from the past" and I feel so much pain and rage that I can't really even talk without doing something HE finds really irritating, which is writing some huge long message about look buster, you did all of these things over and over, hundreds of times, I am doing my best to be calm and sort through it and I want to SORT THROUGH IT instead of every discussion being deflected to how much of a monster I am because I have gotton so upset.

He then disappears. Of course. Without a word. Until he comes back to tell me off for talking so much at him, which HE finds soooo irriating.

Well, I find it irritating to have other children show up out of the blue, for him to have affairs, etc.

he CLAIMS the whole process of recovering anything is being blown apart because I am getting upset and "venting".

I tried to tell him, look, I need you calm, and giving a patient response. I have questions that never get answered. I just basically don't want him to be the rat he has been and I told him his calm and kind response and his patience are really needed.

And he says I am just irritating.

I am pretty upset right now. How can all of this be my fault because I am upset? WHAT do I do with the upset. The constant invalidation and bullying me to shut me down is ramping it up further and is not helping.

You need to get away from him, Atlanta. All he has said here is that his abuse is "your problem" and he won't work to regain your trust. He is not going to stop the abuse, he is telling you that it is your responsibility to deal with it.

There is nothing here to save. Do you see that?

Make him prove it. Tell him to contact Steve Harley himself, and pay for the sessions himself. Tell him to contact the radio show and talk to Dr. Harley about what he needs to do.

Meanwhile, you can continue with a divorce. If he steps up to the plate and makes radical changes, you can always remarry him later if you desire.

You cannot afford to DRAG an abuser through recovery.

He says he will work to regain it and says there is nothing going on now that should be setting me off, so basically he thinks I should stop being upset.

ok, I am not supposed to talk about what he did that caused the upset? I read Dr Harley on the resentment stuff. Am I really never to mention his affairs again? And work in the present?

Melody, I am so destroyed by what he has done. How do I just shut up and never say a thing, I can't help the hurt showing, the feeling of anger, the triggered anxiety and fear.

How do I speak to him about it.