Your poor mother, I am so sorry. My heart goes out to you for having to watch that. My own father would abuse my mother when I was a child, you feel so helpless, hurt, and angry watching it.

I don't actually, on a psychological level, understand what my husband thinks he is about.

He has alienated everyone. All of his relationships have conflict. It's like he is fighting against everyone despite the consequences.

That's because he still has things to sacrifice to the fire of the A to prove he was right.

Eventually he will run out of things to feed it. The "us against the world" really doesn't last too terribly long in an A -- unless they can involve you in it as the terrible Ganondorf who is trying to steal Zelda away from the noble Link. (More like SHADOW Link, which is what he has become). Which is why Plan B is a good idea.

It removes you from the drama.

I guess it's hard to understand anyone else, even when they try hard and are willing to meet you half-way, even when they seem to be builders/buyers who really love you and are interested in you. But when you know someone who seems to be driven by strange demons, who is hard, who alienates everyone, even the kindest people... One cannot understand this person's psychology, one can only set boundaries.


It was the same with my dad.

I've read a lot about serial/multiple adulterers on the MB forums because of my mother's sad situation. There seems to be some consensus that they are a different kettle of fish to the one-off or "occasional" adulterers (I should add that some people disagree to this consensus). Their motivations seem to be different (they actively seek, or are more addicted to, admiration) and the EPs must be extremely stringent and monitored with steely resolve.

But it's not impossible, as the case of Legex (I think that is the name) shows. I do feel, though, that serial/multiple adultery combined with long-term blatant and extended gaslighting is harder still to recover from.


I agree. Absolutely.

LOL KR with the old school gamer reference. I like it, anyways I agree a relationship that is sustained by that won't last. Also, its common behavior for addicts to keep company with people who accept their condition and poor choices. It's actually a good sign he's alienating his prior friendships because it shows those people don't agree with his poor choices.

My IM forwarded a message from him.

He agrees to conditions again. Also he says that he understands I am anxious and afraid. He then tries to explain to me the affair with his ex and whatever weirdness was going with the lady at work.

Simply, he said the lady at work was exactly a stranger when I first was upset about her. He says it makes him really mad and alienated when "you attack people you don't like. I wanted you to act like a classy lady."

I usually simply avoid people I don't like. Why put energy into them when you don't have to deal with them?. I "attacked" his ex because she harrassed me and I told her off and I told off that woman at his work and told her husband about her. I guess that is attacking.

Also, he says, he was not willing to do what I was asking and did what he wanted because he was sure we were not going to be able to reconcile after the baby came, so basically he didn't feel I was long term and in his own mind, though we are married, we were not really married and in a relationship he was willing to repair and keep.


He just wants me to understand that.

And what I remember is over and over him telling me honey calm down and we will love each other again. Honey be quiet about the past, honey calm down FIRST then I will do as you ask.

Now I hear his reason for the hell he has put me through? he watched me degrading, mocked me and put me down all the while telling me to calm down and things be ok... all the while he has decided that we were over?

Now he wants to tell me to calm down and we can work through it?

What is the real message here? I find myself nearly unable to think and keep calm because that communication is so painful to me. For 18 months I have been asking him to stop ONE thing in order for me to calm down and instead he increased it and watched me degrade to suidical last year, just flying apart from the pain and torment.

I am having a very hard time wanting to forgive this man.

I have not answered through the IM yet. My thought is this man needs ignored for now.

I am not sure I can forgive him for knowingly tormenting me to the point of daily panic attacks and suicidal impulses. He talks to me like I just have been overreacting and misinterpreting.

I am so upset I just keep calling my mom to calm me down and help sort my thoughts.

What do I do?

Atlanta, ask your IM to stop sending you stuff like this. It is obvious your H is not even remotely serious when he blames you for his abusive behavior. The next time he sends stuff like this to your IM tell her to reply to him that "this will not be passed onto Atlanta as per her instructions." And she should never tell you about it.

If she needs any help separating the wheat from the chaff, have her email me. I will help her with his foggy, wayward emails. Just notify the moderators with your email address [hit "notify" at the bottom of this post] and ask them to send you my email address.

ok

I don't like fog speak.

What kind of a kook has TWO freaking affairs and then says to YOU that you should have behaved with more "class" while he stuck it to you?? GOOD GOD.

That is about as foggy and insane as it gets.

Oh, no. Your IM should not have forwarded this. This is the same thing as saying "I agree to your conditions, but.' The 'but' negates everything.

IM has been asked to only forward straight agreement to my conditions. All else is not to be considered worth telling.

I always tried to act with the same class and dignity as my mother. It is true eventually I ended up raging at this guy. And nothing would or apparantly will convince the man that a legitimate response to the things he has done is to respond impolitely.

I now understand that a long time ago the true legitimate and "classy" response was to walk away and refuse contact until he went away forever or acted decently.

I feel so helpless and speechless. Silenced. It's really frustrating.

Here is the thing, though. If she only forwards straight forward agreement to your conditions but he is spouting fogbabble to HER, then that means he is not serious. She needs to decide if he is serious before she sends you anything. That is why I am hoping you get my email address and share it with her. I will help her decide if he is serious.. And he is a looooooooooooooooong way from serious after reading the above.

I think letting Mel help your IM is a GREAT idea ... she's great with the fogbabble

I understand how you feel, but you're not really those things.

You're not helpless, because you are helping yourself by demanding that you be treated with the respect that you deserve from your husband. A helpless person would have done nothing.

You're not speechless and silenced because you told him how it's going to be, in your plan B letter. Every time you don't accept his crumbs, your voice is being heard loud and clear by him.

You are stronger than you're giving yourself credit for.


You are acting with class now. Don't let him convince you otherwise.

The real message is that he wants you to feel responsible for HIS bad behavior.

YOU made him have an affair with his colleague. YOU made him have sex with his ex while married to you. YOU made the OC exist - just like that, POOF! the OC was brought into life.

Goodness gracious, Atlanta, did you realise that you have godlike powers?

I'm being facetious here but really, you should see how silly his assertions are. Maybe not now (the wounds still too fresh), but one day, you will laugh at this nonsense.

How can you plug those Plan B holes so you don't get turned around?

What self-care are you doing?

I have been occupying myself with real life. I eat properly, sleep at a reasonable hour. I work. I don't know, I feel kind of grim and resigned.

My IM understands what to put through to me and what not to. So far, so good.

She passed through to me that he said he is willing to do what I asked. That is it.

I don't believe him. I think it is him getting upset and thinking he is terrible and feeling alone is a knee jerk reaction and once he is talking to me, he will fall back into his pattern of evading discussions and coming up with "reasons" for his actions which involve poor him, how injured he is from my anger at him for what he has done, and how HE needs time to recover while I am on my best behavior.

What do I say to him when I get this attitude, because I figure I will get it. I want to know what to do ahead of time. How do I tell him anything about what I feel and think without LB? Because I could tell him flat out that when you put people into extreme situations of being cheated on, lied to, the recipient of OC and other damaging conduct, you will get someone who is very upset back. Is that blaming?

Or is it yes, I was very upset for a variety of reason and I understand you dont like being lashed out at, so that won't be happening again?

I am afraid to even try to reconcile with this guy because of all of the BS reasons he has been giving me for damaging behavior: that one about I didn't think we would stay together so I did as I liked.. boy I have been thinking about it a lot and I feel very strongly that I could be asking for things and he would just act like I am a nobody who he won't even reply to.

I feel angry and sad about that.

I waited a few days then agreed to meet and talk. He says he is too afraid of me to commit to agreement for reconciliation. He wants me to prove I can be trusted to stay calm and be strong.

I told him I have no problem staying calm when I am not being cheated on, emotionally abused, new babies are appearing and other women are not involved.

He tried to reassure me. HIS issue with me is getting so upset. Once he is confident I will stay calm, then he is ready to do everything I have been asking. He also point out that my repeating how bad I feel and why is putting HIM back into a state of hopelessness and depression. He says if I keep insisting on going round and round over the past, then how can we move forward to a better future?



I don't really have an answer to this, except I verified that unless we can speak calmly, there is no point in either of us trying to endure AO for any reason at all. I didn't say this to him, but I feel threatened by his statement which kind of sounded to me like: shut up or else he is gone.

I ended the conversation and excused myself when I started to feel upset from what felt like manipulation.

Trying to decide if he was just being honest and sharing what he feels/thinks and he is trying to be sensible or if I am being blamed, things rugswept and gaslit again.

What do people here think?

My goodness. Why is it all about him and what HE needs. You're supposed to make HIM feel safe?

Good for you for ending the conversation when you felt manipulated!

If it were me, it'd be no dice until he is ready to face the consequences of his actions. Which he clearly is not.

Sounds like a set up. He will do his part after you do your part even though is was his actions in the first place that caused this whole thing to go off the rails.

INSANE.