My H would like to pursue his hobbies but I can't agree enthusiastically. We can't come to an agreement. He says I'm practically preventing him from ever being creative and he can't see a way of obtaining my agreement. He would be very happy to agree to me doing my hobbies in return, but I have lost interest in the hobbies I've had and now only want to do things with him, so I don't need his "tit for tat". We are also having trouble finding RC activities we can do together.

Background:
My H likes to be creative in art and has developed hobbies of woodworking and photography (he also spends time in a darkroom developing them) over the years, before we started MB this year. He also went climbing which I tried once but found too scary and mountain hiking while I stayed at home and babysat. I didn't know if I would like hiking and also thought I wasn't fit enough to do the hikes he wanted to do. He never asked because he had the impression I wasn't interested. Then there was the problem of finding a babysitter and costs.

Over the 25 years of our M I have become very, very resentful about him going off to have fun, leaving me to babysit and being lonely. RC is one of my top 5 EN. Independent behaviour of my H is the biggest LB for me. (and discovering his dishonesty this year).

My H and all our friends can't understand why I can't agree to him doing some hobbies. It looks to them like I'm very egoistic. One should be able to have some individual hobbies and not have to spend every spare minute doing things as a couple, is what they say.

Since I have lost interest in all my hobbies, I have none to give up, whereas my H has lots to give up, if doing them depends on my enthusiastic agreement, plus he might have to give up climbing if I can't get to like it. I have already reluctantly agreed to him taking photos if it can be combined with us having a walk. It's a compromise because I still loose the time it takes to develop them (he works in the darkroom) but I felt mean for taking all his fun out of his life.

Today he wanted to go to a woodworkers workshop for 2 hours. He didn't directly ask for my agreement, saying "he was hoping to go to the meeting", because he knows I can't give it enthusiastically. So he circumvented the issue by not asking directly.

At first I went along with it but the closer it got to the time of him leaving, the more annoyed I felt. I had not asked him to do any RC activity with me or our dd this afternoon because I was under the impression that he had lots of some paid work to finish. Now it looked like he had enough time spare to go to his hobby meeting, although the work he could have done in those 2 hours would have to be done in the evenings.

It looked to me that I was loosing out twice: once while he was at the woodwork meeting and once when he finished the paid work in the evening that he could have done during the time he was at the woodwork meeting. The only reason for me to agree was to be kind and generous to him, as there is no benefit in it for me or our relationship. My H asks if I expect to spend every spare minute doing things together, as he disagrees. He still wants to do some creative things. So we also disagree on how his off-work times should be spend.

Am I just being selfish? Should the POJA be applied to hobbies as well?

There is also the problem that even if he agreed to spend this afternoon doing things with me, (inst. of paid work or hobby meeting), we wouldn't know what to do. We have UA scheduled tonight for 1.5h. We go for a walk while our dd is at sports practice. So he could reason that our UA is tonight and he should be able to do his hobby this afternoon.

My love bank is very low and I get easily discouraged. So my thoughts this afternoon about our marriage are very dark and despondent. It will affect how I feel during UA tonight. My H isn't very happy either because he missed out on his woodwork meeting.

Yes, hobbies are subject to POJA.
You are not enthusiastic about photography and woodworking. So the two of you need to brainstorm and find another hobby that the two of you can enjoy together.

Photography and woodworking are not the only things in life that have the ability to bring him happiness. Find something that can make you both happy.

You are doing your marriage no favor by sacrificing. All you are doing is building resentment, which will destroy your marriage.

Everything should be POJA'd. And what is okay in one marriage isn't going to be the same for another marriage. What you might find is if you're getting your UA time in, LBs are gone, and ENs are being met, you'd be more receptive to him having hobbies.

I like to play indoor soccer; my wife is okay with me playing indoor soccer. We negotiated what day she felt was the best. I compete in the Highland Games. To compete well in my class, I must have skills practice with the implements. The guys practice twice a week. My wife was okay with practice once a week but not twice since I already played indoor soccer. My wife absolutely loves traveling with me to the Games and watching the competition and hanging out with the wives and the kids all playing. Plus practice is at a huge park so she gets to socialize with friends and all the kids get to play.

Here's another way we discussed me going to the gym. I asked her if she would be okay with me going to the gym (yesterday). She told me her schedule and that she was hoping we could have a cookout. So I asked, "well, would you be okay with me going to the gym tomorrow and I'll stay home so we can have a cookout and I'll watch the kiddos while you take care of your appointments?" She enthusiastically said, "absolutely!"

So I brought up something I'd like to do and asked if she was okay with it. She stated that she had other ideas (she wasn't enthusiastic with it in other words). So I gave out some alternate ideas to see what she would be enthusiastic with.

The key here is for both parties to be okay with saying no and being okay with hearing no. No sulking and no whining. Then both parties have to see if there is an alternative to see if the spouse would be enthusiastic if the circumstances were changed. In other words, negotiations have to be an open and safe place.

I very much agree. It's exactly what I told my H during the brief time we were alone in the car and had a chance to talk. I'm annoyed that he gives up so quickly and doesn't really try to discuss things with me. I have the impression that he presumes that it's a lost cause and not even worth his trying to get my agreement. So he gives up and is frustrated.

I told him that there are many factors that stop me from agreeing but that I could change my mind if those factors are addressed. One being that I don't feel we're having enough good quality UA together with fun RC activities yet, so I need to feel satisfied more in those areas before I feel generous to give up time with him.

I can now see that this is how he has always managed to do what he wanted. Now that he has to get my agreement, it's a problem for him. He now has to acknowledge how he just does what he wants and how many LBs he has when he thought he was OK and I was the one with the depression and no interests in life.

We haven't made any progress in finding RC activities we could both enjoy and hobbies seems to be just about impossible.

He's suggesting that I do some of my interests ( e.g. I want to learn French or sew) while he does his. The problem is that since I turned 50 I feel restless and never seem to have enough motivation to do those things. They just look like a waste of time to me. My need is to do things with him not by myself.

Dr Harley writes that he supports his wife's work (or interest ?) as a gospel singer. So it looks like they don't only do things together?

My H works only 4 days atm. Should we agree that one of his free days he does his hobbies? He reasons that I'm not resentful of the time he is away at work. Therefore why should I feel resentful if he uses some of his free time for his hobbies.

The problem is that I don't need any time to do what I want. So I don't need to swap babysitting times with him (like you gave as an example) or go off to see my friends in turn for me letting him do his hobbies. Also, his hobbies have no pay-off for me like the socializing your wife gets at your soccer games. I could get to like to do woodwork but he hasn't found me the right kind of wood yet to do a project with. Since it's his hobby he wants me to like, I feel he needs to put in some effort to help me into it.

On the whole I'm resentful that it often looks like too little effort on his part. He hasn't replenished my love bank for me to feel generous.

Hobbies don't always have to be done together - for example, my husband competes in powerlifting and I don't. He trains by himself while I am home with the kids.

The difference here ^^^ (and like how Joyce might sing) is that we have our recreational activities TOGETHER as well, so we are not resentful when one person wants to do something solo.

You are probably not enthusiastic about photography/woodworking because it is an activity that is being done *BEFORE* your need for RC is filled. If RC was fulfilled (for example, you both spent an hour or so doing something in the morning), you would be enthusiastic about him taking a break for some woodworking.

Is there not a single activity you two both enjoy?

You may simply have to suggest activities that you are enthusiastic about that you believe, based on your experience with him, that he will want to do.

If you are worried about the difficulty of the hike, take charge and you plan the hike. You know he likes hiking, so pick a hike you are confident you can complete.

That's just one example.

My DW came to work out with me this AM. Her comment was that I was the hardest working student in the class. I didn't expect her to work at my pace. I was just happy to have her there with me, sweating to the tunes as we pedaled our bikes.

But they also spend most of their time together filling each others lovebanks. They both have full lovebanks.

Dr. Harley does say that you can enjoy activities/hobbies without your spouse, but only after your spouse is your favorite recreational companion. Individual hobbies should be put aside while you work on the marriage and become that for each other.

Well, I'd say don't say he shouldn't do hobbies because you don't have hobbies. I think you need to guide your husband. Tell him when you don't agree with something, you'd be okay with negotiating. And tell him that you'd be receptive to his time spent on hobbies if y'all had X hours doing RC stuff together.

So you might have to say, "You know, I don't mind you doing Y activity at all but I'd like for you and me to go and do (fill in whatever activity) from X time to X time. Would that be okay? Or what ideas do you have?"

In other words, you're telling him that it's not the issue with the hobby but that you want to do something together first. This also gives him a chance to give input so it's a joint decision.

Remember POJAing takes practice...a lot of practice. It will eventually get easier.

Have you looked at the RC inventory? It has lots of activities and gave us some ideas.

Here.
Recreational Enjoyment Inventory

Thank you Brainy!

You're welcome.

Thank you for all your advise. Much appreciated. I have a better understanding of the issue now.

alis, you have summed up my feelings correctly. That is what I told my H last night. I'm not against him having his hobbies. He pointed out that he needs to be creative to have purpose and meaning in life, which is true, as he has always created things. It is a question of my need of RC with him being fulfilled.

After our talk he could also see that his timing and approach hadn't been helpful as I was under the impression he had to work and so I didn't ask for doing something together, only to then find him wanting to go out to his meeting. So you are right in that my RC needs hadn't been met.

We have now agreed that he can attend the once per month meeting but that he needs to negotiate any other hobby time with me. I've explained to him that I need him to give priority to UA time and building up our marriage. The least he can do after his EA.

Yesterday he was feeling very negative about the POJA at first as it looked to him like he could never be creative again. I pointed out to him that he has been able to do what he likes for 25 years, so it's not like he has never had much chance, to which he replied "that's why it's hard now". Hmm ...

Just as well that Dr Harley has put the radical honesty PO in (it prevents me agreeing reluctantly) because we discovered that I am too much of a Giver and he is a Taker even though when people look at us I'm sure they think it's the opposite because I argue and he is quiet. (even I thought until MB that I was making the decisions, not realizing that his RC activities are independent behaviour).

Now with the POJA in place I still have to be vigilant because he asks for my enthusiastic agreement when he knows I will give it but doesn't directly when he knows I might object. As it's all still new to us, I have sometimes forgotten that he needs to have my agreement.

Re activities: we have some we share which we only do at irregular intervals though, e.g. hiking, outdoor speedminton (it's winter here).

Regularly we cycle to his work every day and I collect him again and we go for one 1.5h walk per week and something longer on the weekend.

His orienteering that I'm trying doesn't happen that often and the Modern Jive dancing I've suggested we haven't started yet because of the rotating issue.

So it feels to me like there isn't that much fun stuff happening yet. I've looked through the rec activity list but haven't found anything. Either he likes it or I like it but not both.

I've become more optimistic tough as I've recovered from the EA effects and some of my motivation has returned at times. I've even started to enjoy the Rummy we play now during our UA times at home which has come as a surprise. I'm reading a book on 'how to free yourself when stress takes over' and am optimistic that it will help me feeling better during RC.

I used to do gardening, crafts and sew so I've assured my H that there will come a time again when I will want to get into it again and we can each have hobby times.

Thanks again for all your help and quoting Dr Harley and posting the links.

My wife and I tried a lot of activities together one or the other didn't think we'd like. We decided to go for the try anything once. We figured if one of us didn't like it, we wouldn't have to do it again. I found out this way how much I absolutely hate camping. Tried it. Didn't like it. Granted there were some parts that were fun like the white water rafting. But on the whole, not.

I agree that since you don't get to do RC, you are resentful of him doing his hobbies.

Here is another approach:
Tell him that you are resentful of him going out and having fun while you are at home. Tell him that you understand that is partially/mostly your fault because you were being a martyr but you now realize that letting him have fun at your expense does not make for a good marriage. Tell him that your end goal is that you have some hobbies that you do together and also if you both have good balance of family time, domestic support you would have no problem with him having additional hobbies. Tell him that you would like to propose a way to get there. Propose that you both have no outside activities FOR NOW except what you do together that you are BOTH Enthusiastic about. Once you guys get into a routine and you are happy with your RC level, he can explore adding more. You do expect that he POJA that...how often and making sure it doesn't interfere with UA time and Family time.