Did you read this?

The book is excellent.

I have the book, yes. Thank you I am reading it.

I think he is a charming gaslighter.

I am starting to think that, too.
Not feeling all that hopeful today.

What's going on?

How are you doing there, Atlanta?

thank you for checking on me. I stepped away and decided to clear my head some.

he agreed to my requests, including individual and marriage counseling, including sorting out remaining asset ownership with his ex wife, and including creating a custody arrangement that does NOT ever again involve him going over to his ex's place to see the kids.

This is what has been happening: he met with 2 attorneys. one to handle custody issues, one to handle the assets. Custody attorney already began filing. His ex already received notice and she had exploding outward with threats, demands, rage and says she will make sure he doesn't get any custody or his share of the assets back. I guess it is going to be difficult issue.

He made an appointment to see a therapist, that appointment is next Wednesday. He has refused to do counseling through Dr.Harley but said make marriage counselor with a reputable local therapist and he would go. I have done that, and that appointment is next Thursday.

He has been over to the house, but has not moved home. He expresses to me that he himself is having a lot of anxiety and nervous problems. He said HE feels extremely hurt by all of the negative "dramas" I created in response to his hurtful actions to me. He refuses to discuss the past at this point, but says that in the enviroment of marriage counseling he will feel "safe" enough to speak openly. He said that when HE calms down, and under the guidance of the therapist, he will absolutely take a lie detector. He says he is very afraid and he feels fear and anger at the thought of how I will react to the bare truth.

He does appear very jumpy. He indicates to me that for him he understands my upset, he knows he has behaved terribly, but he feels very strongly for himself that my extreme upset is a deal breaker for him. He is very condemning and blaming towards me for the raging at him when I discover yet another betrayal.

So I am not sure I am actually getting in reality yet what he agreed to. I have an extremely difficult time with his attitude towards me for my upset. I think he is being too demanding of me and at this point unrealistic and overly resentful.

In a nutshell I am hearing words of responsibility and remorse, but in effect it appears to me he is still unremorseful, controlling, blameshifting and gaslighting.

Maybe it is just me.

Also we already had an upset and it ending badly. He has gone off to soothe his nerves and calm down because I got angry at him and I am sitting here writing to you guys and telling you what happened.

This is what happened:

I got up the day before last and checked my email and he had sent me a mail. He wanted to give me heads up that he was photographed the day before with the former co-worker and that he knew I would eventually see it, so he wanted to be upfront. He didn't say anything else, except attached the photo.

My brain exploded. Condition for reconciliation was he was NEVER around her or had contact with her again. EVER. Additionally I have massive panic attacks still.. obviously I do because I immediately went into one and couldn't calm down. I called him up and said to him when he answered, that there is no excuse for this. NONE. ZERO. He tried to explain and I told him whatever the reason is, it doesn't matter, I don't want to hear it. So he said when you calm down, I will explain.

So I calmed down enough to hear. He was at his new job and lo and behold who walks in but the vp of his company and tagging along was his former coworker. Let's call her OW2.

Well SHE got a job at the new company and the vp has this whole thing going where he hears about (from OW2) what a great team they were in their old jobs. So HE insisted that a pic be taken of the two of them for the company newsletter ( yes, I am thinking this is total BS at this point) and he panicked and froze and didn't know what to do, so he allowed it.

I was extremely upset. I told him it is HIS responsibility to keep away from her. He said he couldn't help it. Then he started condemning me for being so upset. I point blank told him that my anger and pain are a result of his cheating, lying, the extra baby and that I simply cannot recover when these sorts of events happen. I was crying. It hurt a lot. So he snapped "Ok it is all my fault and I am to blame."

Then he hung up on me.

After that he emailed and said he was tired of all the blaming, he doesn't need to hear AGAIN why I am hurt, he already knows, he already understands, and that if I was trying to make him mad, I am doing a good job of it.

I said there was no intention on my part to make him mad. He responded that he was tired of me losing it like that and "I do not want to look at you any time soon."

So I let it go. Yesterday he was MIA and I guess I am dumb, but I mailed and asked if he had calmed down. He wrote an irritated letter that he didn't want to talk to me.

So I said look, we are trying to repair things. It simply is more caring and considerate to my feelings and yours to let me know that you need time to calm down, instead of disappearing. Let's build things up where we can so we feel safer with each other.

He then responded. "Ok. I need a day to calm down."

So I am going about my business. I doubt it will be just one day. I honestly feel really abraded and have a high level of anxiety. I am doubtful this is going to work. I feel very threatened by him, I feel bullied. At the same time, I kind of feel sorry for him for getting into the picture situation. I am thinking ow2 is trying to re-engage and it massively sucks that she showed up at his new work place. I am highly suspicious of it.

Atlanta,

At the same time, I kind of feel sorry for him for getting into the picture situation.

When are you going to end this drama and go to plan B then DIVORCE, this serial cheater/liar is not going to change, if you enjoy pain and lies then this guy is a real catch.

Would he agree to your implanting an internet connected camera in his forehead, as a condition for getting back togeter?

God Bless
Gamma

Atlanta, I only read about halfway through and it is clear that you will be heading towards a false recovery if you continue on this path. More of the same as your other posts.

As we told you your conditions should not be negotiated. IC and MC is not good for your M and if he "refuses" MB then he should be shut down.

We told you he is a "freeloader" and that M with this type of person is a disaster. The only way to become a "buyer" will be to make radical changes and to implement POJA. MB is the only hope for him to do this.

He keeps on "agreeing to all of your conditions", you break your Plan B and then all this gaslighting and negotiations ensue. Nothing has really changed. Do you not see this?

Totally agree with the above posters. HE IS NOT READY, throw him back. Dr. Harley said that a WH should come back with hat in hand remorse. This is not it:

He said HE feels extremely hurt by all of the negative "dramas" I created in response to his hurtful actions to me. He refuses to discuss the past at this point, but says that in the enviroment of marriage counseling he will feel "safe" enough to speak openly.
but he feels very strongly for himself that my extreme upset is a deal breaker for him. He is very condemning and blaming towards me for the raging at him when I discover yet another betrayal.

I think he is being too demanding of me and at this point unrealistic and overly resentful.

but in effect it appears to me he is still unremorseful, controlling, blameshifting and gaslighting.

Maybe it is just me. (It's NOT)

He has gone off to soothe his nerves and calm down because I got angry at him and I am sitting here writing to you guys and telling you what happened.

he was photographed the day before with the former co-worker and that he knew I would eventually see it, so he wanted to be upfront. He didn't say anything else, except attached the photo.

He said he couldn't help it. Then he started condemning me for being so upset.

Then he hung up on me.

After that he emailed and said he was tired of all the blaming, he doesn't need to hear AGAIN why I am hurt, he already knows, he already understands, and that if I was trying to make him mad, I am doing a good job of it.

He responded that he was tired of me losing it like that and "I do not want to look at you any time soon."

Yesterday he was MIA and I guess I am dumb, but I mailed and asked if he had calmed down. He wrote an irritated letter that he didn't want to talk to me.

I could go on, but do I really need to?

Honey, I am angry FOR you! He is not running this rodeo, you are. And if he can't play by the rules then show him the door.

Tell him "I'm sorry but I deserve better than this" and go back to Plan B. Super dark. Do you have an IM? How did the IM play into this nonsense of what he was (or should I say wasn't) willingto do?

I see it. I don't actually think he is in a condition to reconcile. He looks to me more like he needs a psychiatrist and meds for whatever is going on with him.

I do see some changes in him. I am watching to see if he continues to follow through on the asset division and the custody issues. Part of me strongly believes that since he never truely sorted these issues, he is continually being dragged down and sucked in. This guy is using up vast amounts of mental and emotional energy trying to evade, control, run in circles.

I am not ready to divorce him. The key obviously, as you say is he needs to be a buyer. Well part of buying is tying up loose ends and removing himself from his ex wife.

He tells me he is 100% ready to do marriage builders principals. He says. We have only been back in contact about a week and a half. His statement was only about counseling with Dr. Harley. He is open to marriage builders principals. Yes, this is a long and painful process and he looks pretty crap. Maybe I look crap, too.

Yes, I can go back to plan B. I was thinking I should anyway until he follows through on the custody and asset division. It could end up being months or years if his ex can put up a fight for real. Her parents are quite well off, so if they will fund her, it could be a while.

"Some changes" is a big fat NOTHING.

It's your conditions, all of them....or the highway.

If he was willing to do MB then he would have no problem doing the MB coaching. Better yet, have him call Dr Harley and then let Dr Harley tell you if he is serious. Otherwise, airtight Plan B.

I think I already told you that. You are in Plan Atlanta and so far Plan Atlanta has almost led you to a nervous breakdown. I hope you will start following MB instead!

You haven't really ever been in Plan B. And I think you need a new IM. This one isn't doing her job correctly.

And resend your conditions -- add in for him to call Dr Harley on the radio show. If he ever goes on, be sure to send Dr Harley a letter giving him your side of the story.

Atlanta,

Please list what is worthwhile about this human being?

Please tell me what you would tell a daughter of your if she was dating or married to someone with this guys traits?

God Bless
Gamma

Atlanta, do you have an IM? A good IM should be protecting you from him.

Agreed with all of this.

Get a new IM, go to a real Plan B, and tell your husband to call Dr. Harley.

Please read.
False Recovery-Need Voices of Experience

He is still in the affair and you have just found out. Now he needs to do some gaslighting to convince you that it is nothing.

That is what is going on with him Atlanta.