Ana, Dr. Harley does not recommend you meet his emotional needs while the threat of an angry outburst is hanging over you:

You need to follow the plan, though, or things are not going to get better. The articles describe the elements of Dr. Harley's plan for people in a situation like yours.

living_well, you come up with some very valid points. My husband had no role models and was brought up in an environment with an alcoholic father who used rage, anger,emotional and physical abuse and/or threats against my husband and siblings. It truly was an horrific upbringing.

I can see where you are coming from and can look back and see my husband was always against healthy conflict. He never wanted to discuss any issues with me until I stopped talking about things he really did need to know about. I see this in hindsight, I didn't see it at the time.

As I grew older I started to stand up to his refusal to be emotionally with me in the marriage, and back then I called him some very unkind things. I was very hurt and felt very alienated, alone and neglected - which doesn't excuse my own behavior in the least!

The only thing that puzzles me is that the older he has become, the worse his problem has become, and for the life of me I cannot understand how a distance of 45 yrs from leaving home his anger and lack of feeling is worse with the distance of time.

However, I'm not psychologist so the reasons as to why are unknown to me.

As for counseling with the Harleys - it's out of our budget at the present time due to recession.

Good night, Ana! I just went and reviewed your husband's initial posts here:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=167469&Number=2676544#Post2676544

Your husband is a serious abuser. You need to let him know you will not continue to stand for this and make plans to separate if he does not eliminate his angry outbursts and disrespect.

living_well, from where I sit, this is a much more serious problem than just not knowing how to care for AnaR:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=167469&Number=2676544#Post2676544

We need to teach Ana how to not let him get away with this stuff any more. The bar of what he needs to do to not lose her needs to be raised a lot higher if he's still having angry outbursts.

Does this sound like a loving thing to say:

Markos, the reason I blame myself for part of it is that I stand up to him and ask that he stops talking over me, stops being cruel, stops being so uncaring, and as I ask, he raises his voice more and get's worse, then I raise mine with the same requests, or asking for him to explain what I don't "get", and then he turns and says "Look at you - I'm out of here."

Therefore, I see me as not helping the situation, but am terrified of sanctioning what he does by saying nothing - and I have tried that and he still escalates on his own. I stand up to him but am absolutely terrified and shaking inside when I do. It's as if he is crossing boundaries that are sacred to me - violating my inner core. I don't know if I am making this explanation well enough, but I am trying.

But this can all come from him being kind, loving, caring - everything a woman could want - then 15-20 mins later it is as if a switch is thrown and he has changed as if someone swapped him. This is what is driving me over an edge - I never know which one will face me next. Unbeknown to him is that I have my cell set on emergency all through his rages, and yet he tells me I don't know what fear is [he means through his behavior, not life in general].

He reads the books from MB, reads the articles, everything - but none of it seems to compute.

The saddest thing is that he does have a very kind heart - baseline personality - but it's all ruined by a lack of control or whatever it is that is causing it.

Anyway, enough of me, he has said one thing - he has stated to me that he wants to deal with this problem seriously and is coming onto MB to seek guidance.

PS : Sorry Markos, I was writing as you were posting.

Ask him in writing. Do not have this discussion in person.

The angriest men are often among the gentlest. When I married Markos, one of the things that attracted me to him was how gentle and caring he was. But, when he got angry, there was nothing that scared me more.

Good!

I don't think counseling with the Harleys would be nearly as effective as following Dr. Harley's plan for wives in your situation. My wife will probably happily post some links for you to read. You can also get in touch with Dr. Harley directly, and I beg you to do so, through his radio show: mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

There is nothing wrong with you standing up for yourself. You are not doing anything wrong. The problem is his: he doesn't fix his abusive behavior, even when you confront him about it.

So, you will have to move to Dr. Harley's next step, for what to do when your husband refuses to address your complaints.


I'm hoping you'll read some of Dr. Harley's material here on this website that is not in the books to see what Dr. Harley says you should do. Start with the link in my wife's signature.

The radio show is free. Dr. Harley takes a no-nonsense approach to angry outbursts, and it would be very good for you to talk to him.

Have you read the link in my signature?

Yes I agree with all your points. I did not express myself well but what I was trying to say was that this seemed to be to be an instance where a spouse wanted to be a loving person but was unable to be.

**EDIT** That is why I suggested counseling.

David is not angry because of a borderline personality disorder (Dr. Harley doesn't believe in personality disorders, btw). He is not treating Ana this way because of his childhood.

He is an angry, abusive jerk because he CAN be. He has had more than enough time to change that, but he hasn't.

Ana, the next step is separation. David can work on his anger without you there if he wants to win you back.

Have you read this?
What to do With an Angry Husband

Will your H take anger management?

Also:
Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

" I think, if that was the problem for David, it would not be possible for him to just curb his anger. That is why I suggested counseling"

What he needs is to make a decision to knock it off or she should separate from him. His behavior has nothing to do with his childhood, but with his adult decision to be a jerk. That is entirely within his control.

Hello,

This is Ana's husband. I firstly want to say that I Dearly Love my Wife and want to keep my marriage with her.

I keep trying and trying not to angry, but there is something within me that triggers me into a self protective mode where I feel Ana attacks me. I later see this is not logical, but at the time I am very defensive and cannot control my anger or what I say, even though I know I don't mean what I say.

Ana says she feels controlled and calls me a dictator over her, and at the time I do not know where, but later when calm I understand.

Here is an example of how things could have gone wrong but for once I shut my mouth and apologised instead, and we ended up having a wonderful evening.

Ana received a text message and I heard what I though she had said was that it was not for her. But she sat there answering it. I said "then why are you answering it?".

Ana just looked at me perplexed and I didn't know what I had said wrong. Ana said "what is wrong with me texting my Dad?"

I said, "Oh, I didn't know it was from your Dad."

Ana said, "Honey, it wouldn't matter whom I was replying to, I am grown woman and I did say it was my Dad."

I started to feel as if Ana was attacking me, but I caught myself and apologised immediately. I don't know where these feelings are coming from.

This is how a very small thing can set me off if I had pursued it.

The only thing both Ana and I can pinpoint is when I turned angry. I have always been a conflict avoider, but the anger started around 1996 whilst going through a decade long litigation matter where a psychiatrist at that time said my anger was what was keeping me sane. It is as if I never came out of that mode of fighting for myself.

I'm here asking for help and guidance from the veterans of MB because I never want to see my wife hurt again and I realise I am sabotaging my own relationship and feel angry at myself after any outburst.

Please help me help myself,
David

Welcome DavidR!

Do you have the book "Lovebusters?" There is a chapter about angry outbursts and Dr. Harley gives steps on how to retrain yourself to not make angry outbursts. The steps include taking time to imagine or think about something that makes you angry and as your temper begins to rise begin a relaxation process so that you start developing a habit of going into problem solving mode instead of outburst mode.

Throw away the idea that angry outbursts help you through anything. There are better and more fruitful ways to address your frustrations.

If Markos advises you, truly listen to him.

It's great you want help to help yourself, for that is your first step, to realize that no one makes you angry. It's great you protected your wife from your anger, too! Keep that up and it will definitely help both of you.

Oh, and please start your own thread.

Oh, I see you already have a thread, quite extensive actually.

I remember that thread, now. Have you at least made an apology to her for the abuse you've slung at her? With a plan on how you are going to stop, right now, cold turkey?

I sincerely hope that you are not using this latest post as a ploy to keep your favorite punching bag around.

Don't burn your last chance.

You are in a position now that you can't commit even one Lovebuster. Not a one. Not only angry outbursts, but no demands, disrespect, no independent behavior, no dishonesty. In these cases, Dr. Harley advises being separated while changing abusive habits because you could easily make the last Lovebuster she can handle if you work on this while living together.

Ana, have you read this link? There are crucial instructions in there for you. I believe you need to start working through them immediately.