Do you two listen to the radio program together? That's a very good study of MB. There's apps for the phones and I believe for the Kindle and iPad.

If you pay about $50 you can get the archives, and then you could listen in little snippets. Those can be downloaded and saved and listened to while you're driving around together.

The book "Draw Close" has a whole year's worth of nice short devotionals all focused around the MB principles. We always read one before going to bed. When we finish the book, we've started it all over again.

If your wife isn't enthusiastic about posting, I wouldn't push it. Posting on the forum isn't necessary for recovery. My husband wasn't enthusiastic about posting either. He also doesn't read here, but he is a very enthusiastic student of MB by way of the radio show and the books.

I would agree on not pushing this. My wife posts frequently because I was successful in implementing the program and getting her to fall in love with me. But let me tell you, when she was not in love with me, she did not want to be here, and she did not want to hear about Marriage Builders!

What specific complaints do you have for her? Unmet needs, love busters? I know that sex is the big thing, or has been in your previous posts. It would be good to mention those, factually but without pressure, frequently.

By the way, I've been meaning to post to you another recommendation of Dr. Harley about sex: Dr. Harley suggests that when one spouse has a higher need than the other, that the two make this agreement: the need will be met as often as the higher need spouse needs it, but it will be done the way that the lower need spouse enjoys.

This is GREAT!

OK I'll post an update. Today is our 13th wedding anniversary and it has triggered me. Just haven't felt good all day. It just doesn't feel like we really "made it" to 13 ya know?

We were in the car on the way to our destination Friday night. It was a 3.5 hour drive. Somewhere along the way, I suggested we listed to the day's radio show. We were listening to the part where Dr. H was talking about the POJA and how following that would make the caller happy and something along the lines of clearing up her depression. My W said "I don't agree with that at all!"

This prompted me to ask what she meant. She mentioned two things specifically. One was having to ask "permission" to go to the grocery store. Another was having a job so she had "her own money." She doesn't like the fact that she can't just buy something whenever she wants with "her money".

I have to say, this scares me a little bit.

I can commiserate with ya about the anniversary, but you have made it this far

Poja is something that takes a lot of practice. More so for a woman, I think. Equal rights and all that, right? But she has to change her mindset. She needs to realize that she isn't asking permission, she is asking your opinion and input. If you are not enthusiastic, then others alternatives have to be presented. It is thinking of your partner's feelings and not just your own.

For me it's a habit I'm trying hard to break

Work into the budget an amount of money each week/month that each of you will have to use at your own discretion.

An allowance for adults, if you will, that makes paying for all the mundane things like bills and mortgage more tolerable.

Would that sound reasonable to her?

I've thought about it and we know to do this as we had been using the Dave Ramsey course for 2 years prior to D-Day. We had this big wall chart that we made. Kind of like those goal signs you see for chartable organizations where they are trying to fill up a mercury thermometer. Like this one:



Anyway, all of that went out the window on D-Day. It had been a goal we were working on together, and I just didn't care about it anymore, so I quit keeping up with it. All of my focus from that day has been on the M. We haven't added new debt since, but she quit her job three months later. That eliminated 42% of our gross income. It also eliminated the big expense of daycare for two children, but still it was a big hit.

Prior to her leaving her job, we lead pretty much separate financial lives. We divided up the bills, and she was responsible for some of them and I was responsible for others. We had separate checking accounts. We each had our own debt snowballs going on with the debts we each were personally liable for.

Now, we have my income primarily, and she is able to bring in some extra money watching three other children (besides our own) during the day. Now, she feels like what she does doesn't contribute anything. Besides that she doesn't like doing it. I think she sees it as punishment for the A. No amount of me telling her how important her job is changes that.

Bottom line is, she doesn't feel comfortable spending "my money" on anything for herself. It doesn't matter what I say.

Can she keep some of the "extra money" she has coming in from watching the other kids? I mean, that would be "her money"?

Is she suffering from any depression? Does she go to IC?

I suppose she could. I'm bringing in the money to cover all of "her" debt payments though. Not sure if that's how she would see it or not. Worth a shot though.

I'd say she does suffer from some situational depression. Mostly related to the kids and the feeling of having no "real" job. She does not go to IC.

That's a lot of IB there with the finances!

You'll both need a new frame of mind with it--it's not your money or her money and it's not your debt or her debt. It's marital money and marital debt, so it belongs to both of you.

You're a team in this.

I know this and have no problem with it. That's why I put "her" debt in quotes and "her money" in quotes. Because that is the way she really views it. We have lived our whole marriage this way up until she left her job. That was our agreement in the past. I thought we had a new deal now because of the POJA, but now I'm not so sure. It makes me uneasy to think she is just biding her time until she can start working again. Not to mention the IB that lead to the A.

Obviously we need to discuss this further.

I'm a big believer in this. All financial accounts should be joint accounts. I extend that practice to assets as well; no personal property - it all is marital property. That way, the POJA is natural.

I figured as much. If she is not enthusiastic about the current situation then a discussion would be good to come up with ideas that she is happy with and not sacrificing.

FTF,

Was WW the one who paid for the affair activities?

Financial dishonesty leads to emotional dishonesty leads to sexual dishonesty, one lie begets another.

God Bless
Gamma

I've told her that maybe she could not watch these kids anymore, but she feels obligated to the people she told that she would watch them.

She also feels that i would not be OK with her teaching again. To be honest, I'm not real comfortable with it.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with her working outside the home at all to be honest. She used it as an escape from home life and built her secret second life there. I think she is happiest when away from me and the children period. I'm afraid that kind of situation leaves her open to an A again.

There were not affair activities to pay for as far as I know.

I used to feel like I wasn't worth a whole lot unless I was bringing in some money. Anything I was contributing to the home and to our overall financial well being by adding my own wisdom to our decisions was worth less than I could have contributed by having a job.

With MB, I finally came to grips about how marriage and interdependency work. What a revelation! Like a husband in love once said, "I make the living, and my wife makes my life worth living."

If she doesn't like child care, there are other options she could try, especially having her teaching credentials: tutoring children, for example. Or she could get completely away from teaching and get into another profession that piggybacks on her education. She could see a career counselor. Brainstorm.

Your wife doesn't find her life fulfilling right now and this really needs to be addressed.

MB advocates having a joint account. If your wife would like her own account for expenses, you could negotiate on an amount that would go into it each month. From there she would buy the household groceries and other necessary items. You would have access to that account, though, and make sure you look at it.

We have a joint account and we each have an "allowance." We can each spend this allowance any way we want to on predetermined things we agree on in advance. (like hobbies, spur of the moment small purchases) I handle all our personal bookkeeping and account access (due to his poor handling of these things in the past.) But I share the financial info with him freely every month and keep him up to date on where we stand.

One more thing I want to add about 2nd incomes, though. Many people think that when the spouse gets a job, the standard of living will increase greatly. It often doesn't add as much as we think to the bottom line, unless the 2nd income is quite large.

You may already understand all this, but just in case a reminder is desired:

The 2nd income will be taxed at the highest tax rate of the 1st income. There are certain tax credits lost at higher income rates. There is more exhaustion and less time together with two full-time jobs.

I analyzed our finances once while working full time for a large corporation. I found that while I added about 33% to our gross income, our federal taxes increased by about 66% and our state income taxes doubled. I still made us our lunches every day and we didn't go out to eat much, so we didn't have that added expense. However, lots of people have little time to make their own meals so they have to buy their lunches. The wardrobe for the 2nd income has to be considered as well. Then there's child care.

The POJA isn't easy as first, but it is the key to creating compatibility in marriage.

Do you make sure you admire your wife? Tell her she's beautiful? Flirt with her?

Well, they are now with the exception that she has kept her old checking account open. It has no money in it but it is still there. When I asked her why she kept it, she said "for security".