You're making this way too difficult. There's no reason to make sure all the chores are done, the kids are asleep, the stars are aligned, Leo is in the southern hemisphere, the wind is coming from the southwest, and etc. Being honest doesn't require long drawn out conversations. And, I can tell you from a guys point of view, we don't want a long drawn out conversation. And chances are if you start bringing up a list of things that bother you that happened in the last day or two, he's not even going to remember the situation. My wife would let things build up and then have this "remember when..." And I'm like "Ummm no."

There's a thing called drive-by honesty. It works well. If he says something that hurts your feelings, tell him right then that it hurts your feelings when he says "enter whatever it was he said". Here's an example from my marriage. My wife used to bring up things that I did in front of company that I felt were not appropriate to be brought up in front of others. I simply said, "Hey, honey, can I talk to you for a second?" I pulled her to the side and said, "I find it disrespectful when you said "....." in front of company. I would appreciate it if you didn't bring that up in front of others again." She apologized, and she didn't repeat the behavior.

One thing that irritated my wife is since I have a hectic schedule, to spring things up on her at last minute. She said, "I really don't like it when I don't know your schedule because I don't know when to plan things. Can you write your schedule down a week in advance on a calendar?" I said, "absolutely." And have been writing my schedule down on a calendar.

See it doesn't have to be long drawn out conversations bringing up something that bothers you. You simply state that you don't care for X behavior. You don't have to explain yourself or justify why you feel a certain way. And the spouse doesn't even have to agree with you. They just have to understand that something bothers you and respect your feelings enough not to repeat said behavior or action.

Your husband is not your father. Stop bringing up the past into the present. All it does is keep you focused on the past instead of moving forward.

Essentially you can keep yourself paralyzed with uncertainty and fear or you can take steps to change. It's really that simple. Be honest. Say how you feel.

kilted thrower,

I think you misunderstand. He is sweet. He really doesn't do anything to hurt my feelings. There isn't a behavior that he does that gets on my nerves. It is more HUGE lifestyle things like: I don't think I want to live on 50 acres anymore. I don't want the kids to be a priority over me. I don't like the pace of the life we are living.

And as far as long drawn out conversations, then how in the world am I supposed to figure things out if I don't do that? What if I want to talk about how we impact the world as a couple? How can we both use our gifts together? What about church? I'm not sure traditional church is what I like anymore, so what is truly important about God? How is God speaking to me to us? What do I want to do with the rest of my life???? He has his retirement all planned out, but as the kids are graduating what if I want to finally do something some kind of career for me..

These kind of things will take long conversations. This isn't something as simple as don't talk badly about me in front of people ( which neither of us do!)

I've always just gone along with his plans, so much so that to be honest, I don't know exactly WHAT I want. I just know I am not happy and that is all... But maybe it is just me being selfish. I don't know...

Thanks Markos. I'm working on getting that courage. Another 4 days until he is back home...

And it isn't that I wasn't honest about some of the lifestyle decisions when we made them. He wanted to move out to 50 acres. It had always been his dream.. Ok, sure. I honestly didn't have a dream except maybe to be Amy Grant someday. But I knew I didn't have the talent to really do that... I didn't care about moving out here. It is pretty. But as a city girl, I had absolutely no idea of the work involved in the upkeep. My dream was to marry and have kids, but I had no idea of the work involved with children... Would I make the same decisions? I don't know...

It is like I woke up a year ago and didn't want to be living the life I was stuck in... But I helped create it. He wasn't some evil dictator. He asked me every step of the way.. I just didn't understand and it is like a fog has lifted in some ways and I can finally see clearly what I want and what I don't..

Don't know if this makes any sense... See this is how I need to talk, but he would get defensive and get upset and wonder what he had done wrong, but I don't know that HE did anything wrong... I don't know...

Exactly!!! I know that. HE wants to know what it is so he can fix it. But when we were dating he spent hours drawing me out and asking me questions about what I wanted and how I felt. I cried. He would continue to ask questions and hold me. It was like someone finally loved me with that unconditional love.. Now he wants information quickly. But I don't even know what the information is. Who am I and where am I going?? And who am I as an individual...

TiredWife, I meant to bring this up before, but I have to comment: the two of you are not getting in even 15 hours of UA time, and NOW you're saying he's out of town and won't be back for four days??

I didn't realize that your H travels for his job. There's really nothing further I can advise you. You are missing the foundation of an intimate marriage simply by lack of physical time together. Nothing we can add will make much difference if the two of you can't commit to 20 hours a week in UA time. You'll have to cross your fingers and hope there's something left after the kids (your current 'UA priority') are out of the house and gone.

H doesn't travel for his job. He took a week long trip with our middle child. He takes a special trip with each child once a year. May and June have been nuts. We were doing ok with dates but then end of the year concerts,family coming in for graduation. family mission trip, orientation with oldest for college, his school reunion ( I went with him) and now this trip with our middle child just hasn't left the time. That is the part of the lifestyle problem I have and that my counselor also agrees is nuts.

Oh, and the UA priority. That is HIS priority not mine and yes, I have been honest about that. He says he only has a limited amount of time with them. Then we will have our whole retirement together ( he is retiring when the youngest one graduates from hs) I've told him I don't want to wait that long, so he agreed to weekly dates, but with his call schedule and all of those trips in the last 8 weeks, even that hasn't been there.

However, he has been taking me for walks, sitting on the swing with me, doing small things to show me he loves me. I just feel like it is getting crammed in and I would like more relaxed time. But I feel like he will be upset and think he can't do anything to please me, because this has been a big adjustment for him. He has continued to do these things even though the dates haven't fit in. ( Though I guess you could call the reunion a date?)

TiredWife, you are living a child-centered life. Child-centered.
(Does he take a special trip with the most important person is his life once a year? - that's YOU, by the way.) Child-centered. Yep, you guessed it: Child-centered.

And the end result will be two tired parents who have launched their children and then turn to look at the other partner and see: a stranger. One they don't necessarily care for, or even remember a time when they actually DID care for each other.

You need to change this up, TiredWife. Before you're both on the swing, wondering who it is you're swinging with.

Maritial Bliss,

Oh, believe me, I see that. That is part of what I want to change. But see, that is what I mean about everything being all wrapped up.

If I get the courage to say, " I am so very jealous and resentful of my children. I have to pray for God to take away the jealousy everytime you hold hands with your daughter and she looks at you adoringly. " Good grief. What mom feels like that??? He will think I am a monster because he is all child centered. His parents are all child and grandchild centered. He won't understand this. I HAVE told him that I want to feel more important than the children.

Time management is his downfall. He expects to keep all of these plates spinning and expects me to help him. He now views going out on dates and filling my love bank as just another plate to spin. He tries do that without causing all of the other plates to drop. The problem is that many of these plates need to break and shatter.

The first thing we need to do is come to agreement on priorities and I don't have a clue how to do that. THAT WILL TAKE TIME, TIME THAT ISNT THERE. Those are some of the discussions that I want to have with the counselor. Ok, what are your priorities? What are mine? What should they be. ( Guys, you don't have to tell me, I know the right answer: personal relationship with God. a loving relationship with each other, THEN the kids, then either work or mission work, then the other one, THEN this stupid farm or maybe hey novel idea: spending time with friends or even making friends which we might have time to do if we didn't spend all our time on this place!!!!

Once we agree on those priorities, then we need say this is how much time all of those should take over the week, month, year. Then we need to take out a blank calendar and MAKE THE PRIORITIES FIT NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!! Right now the tyranny of the urgency is leading us. Right now the good is crowding out the best. And then we say no to whatever doesn't fit. PERIOD.

I have mentioned some of these things in passing on our date night, but they seem to get shot down for one reason or another. I feel like perhaps we need a whole week away to hash this out. But could you have those hard discussions by yourself as well as do some fun things that I also want to do and not have those ruin the fun things.

He wants to do everything in his life perfectly and at a very high level. But what he wants IS NOT POSSIBLE. He can't be the best doctor in the world, be the best father on the planet, the best mission worker for God, with a showplace farm where he does all the work himself and a great husband. Honestly his job and the farm would take 80-90 hours if he refuses to hire anything out or get the youth group to help or whatever.

But I think all of this starts with definition of marriage and what that takes. My priorities and way of seeing the world are completely different from his now. How to be radically honest without making demands.

See I think part of the problem is this: You guys start with MB as the basis. (Which is good.) My husband doesn't agree with the philosophy, so I would definitely be negotiating to do the basic policies. Which to yall are non-negotiable... But how do I get him to do without making a demand????

Sigh. That is where I am. Believe me, I know we are child centered and I hate it and I'm celebrating that one will be gone and only 2 more are left. He is in mourning.

In POJA, it's perfectly acceptable to say, "Spouse, I know we agreed to do things this way a while back but now it is no longer suiting me. Can we discuss some other options?"

But to have this discussion, you've probably got to start with alternatives to get the negotiation/brainstorming under way. Do you have alternatives? Do you want to live near/in a city? Do you want to have a smaller house? Do you want to have time for things that don't involve your children?

There are two problems here, as I see it. First, your H's Taker is well and truly running the show in your marriage. Second, you are timid, you seem to see your H on a pedestal and you are terrified to make a ruckus about what YOU want.

I would wager a goodly sum that your H - despite him being a busy doctor and doing work for the poor etc - is just as selfish as every other human being on this planet. He is merely human: he will keep trying to have things his own way at your expense until YOU draw boundaries that protect you.

You've already told him that you want more UA time. You went through a lot of anguish doing this because of your timidity. You describe him as being sweet and sensitive - ergo he MUST be aware how hard it is for you to speak up like that and how important it is when you DO speak up.

So your H KNOWS full well that you're unhappy with the situation. But he keeps trying to do things his way (plate spinning) because it suits HIM. He's not really thinking about you here, TW. He's not listening because he doesn't want to.

Ouch, that would really hurt me if it was true. Yes, I guess I do see him as a really good guy and I believe if he could give it to me, were able to that he would because he is such a good guy. I either must not be making myself clear or it may not be the right thing to want...

Not sure what I should do when he comes back in a few days, restate it yet again... Just not sure exactly how to speak up without sounding like a nag and yet letting him know that I am serious. And also how not to cave, because once he starts talking what he wants sound so reasonable and so right that it hard for me to stand my ground. I end up thinking I am wrong for wanting it.

And did you follow up by being radically honest and telling him that this will not work for you?

I really don't want to hurt you, TW. You're clearly a very nice person. But you HAVE already talked to your H about your feelings (at great cost to yourself, because you are a conflict-avoider and so broaching such topics is fraught with fear for you) and what you've gotten from him is compliance that is to the letter but NOT the spirit of MB.

He's just spinning plates harder, whereas what he should be doing is - as you pointed out - let a whole bunch of those plates drop and focus on his wife, who has given him clear notice that her lovebank is feeling pretty overdrawn.


I repeat, I think you HAVE made it clear. And if it is what you want, it IS the right thing! You deserve to be the centre of your H's love and care and attention. He may be a nice guy but he is majorly taking you for granted. Yes, you haven't hammered him -->


- but I reckon repeated (and escalating) insistence is what is needed here. Is that nagging? No way, it's a fair warning.

You own a bank (your lovebank), and your key account holder is withdrawing big time. The account is getting low, and you're alarmed and unhappy. Would YOUR bank let you know if you're in danger of becoming overdrawn? Yes. Would you be annoyed? No: unless you're a freeloader, you'd be grateful.



It sounds as if you have a seriously underdeveloped Taker. Your H's Taker is accustomed to power, I suspect that he may well not like your Taker asserting your will. He will talk until you give in. So you need to develop your Taker so that she can negotiate in a fair and reasonable manner on your behalf.

I'm sure that there are many ways to improve assertiveness. My suggestion is this:

I taught my conflict-fearing and submissive 8 yo daughter to talk to her "opponent" by looking at herself talking in the mirror. She was allowed to yell, say what was on her mind to the mirror. Although she found it stressful at first because she was shackled by fear, these exercises (suggested by a school counsellor) helped her to recognize and acknowledge her Taker. In a week's time, she could refuse the aggressive demands of her school mates (she saw them as aggressive while another person might find them inoffensive) in a calm and equable manner.

My daughter has no problems standing up for herself today (she's 13 now). She is kind but very good at drawing boundaries. I wish I had been as good myself at that age, actually!

Good luck. I know it's not easy when you're afraid but your feelings are important and they should be repeatedly expressed - again and again - until either he gets it or you realise that he's more selfish than you realised.

I hope the former will occur.

Ok, so hubby and son got back yesterday. He has some surgeries today and then he would like for us to go out on a date tonight. I need your help to come up with something. He just got back out of town. I did as well. I took our 11yodaughter on a Passport to Purity trip and so we did some fun stuff and had "the talk" and it was a really good time. ( I figured since hubby was gone, it was a good time for our 3 day trip. Just left the 18yo home alone.) So..

In a way, I would like to just relax and stay home, but with the three kids here that isn't an option. We need to get dressed up or go out somewhere. He suggested a movie, but then said no maybe you would rather go out to eat and talk... But the truth is I have eaten out so much over the last week and so has he... We normally only go out to eat once or twice a month as we really like to eat at home. It is better for my weight and cholesterol. Plus, I would like to talk about some of the deeper issues that we need to talk about and not sure a restaurant is the place to do that.

Ok, so we like outdoor activities- to hike or something... It is 102 degrees here today. YUCK!!! If we do a picnic somewhere it will be hot and then we will need to pour on the insect repellent since West Nile is huge here. OFF is just not a sexy smell....

I'm getting stuck. I want a fun date where we can have a great time and flirt and be out of the house. I then want some time to talk about the deeper issues. HELP ME COME UP WITH SOMETHING!!!! In a way, I'm tired and just want to relax here but kids and chores would make that impossible. Help me MB people.

Also, my monthly visitor is here so SF is out. GRR. ( yes, I know it is possible but hubby doesn't find it attractive so it is out)

Honey date night is about filling each other's love bank, and I don't think you two are at a point where talking about deeper issues does that. You both feel so guilty about feeling the normal things everybody feels. The only way I could imagine you talking about deeper issues is if you commit to each other that neither will take it as a personal failure or something. You're not starting form scratch, there is a lot you are doing great, and some small changes will reap some huge rewards.

But boy I would love to see you two go out and listen to music or go dancing and leave the heavy talk until your prayer and connection time the next morning. And then when you are doing your morning prayers to ask God to show you two how to bless your marriage, to help you two try to step out together in new ways that bring you two special connection together.

And how cool that he is telling you he wants to go out for a date night! That's worth celebrating!

What are these deeper issues? If they're secret I understand, but if they're stuff that's easy to talk about here like "I miss you and want more alone time with you" then maybe we can help you brainstorm here.

Ok, I am SO confused.. I thought people wanted me to be radically honest... So should I ditch that plan and just plan a fun date.. BTW we agreed while we were still dating to dump dancing to keep our relationship together. I took dance for 10 years and my poor husband cannot lead as he cannot keep rhythm, so then I try to lead and we would get in a fight. It wasn't pretty. We cannot dance together. Not sure where in this rural area we would go listen to music: It would have to be Christian contemporary...

But I am confused.. so I shouldn't bring anything deeper but just make it fun.

Oh, yes, he has been trying to take me on a date every week until this May/June oldest graduating stuff happened. ( Read earlier posts on this thread to see.) The deeper issues are yes, I don't see enough of you. I feel like you have WAY too many plates spinning and you have just added me as a spinning plate. I am really, really glad he is making an effort, but it is like he is just adding it to his list instead of taking some things off. I really want to reprioritize our whole life. What he SAYS are priorities and what is reflected in our time do not add up. The tyranny of the urgent is taking over the true priorities.

Then finally, I need to be able to disagree with him. We need to be able to do conflict. Right now both of us avoid it to not hurt each other's feelings and if we do, then we just both apologize instead of talking through it. My counselor says we have "purchased tranquility at the price of intimacy." That is true.. I say what he wants to hear sometimes to buy the peace or because I can see that that is what would make HIM happy..

You are supposed to be radically honest. But date night is not the time to have serious conversations that can lead to hurt feelings. Remember that date night is supposed to be fun and flirty.

I'd so say so what if he doesn't have rhythm. Just go dance. I have an English degree and there are grammatical errors when my wife writes me love letters. I'm sure as heck not going to correct her punctuation. This would be a sure way to stop getting letters. What if you two took dance lessons together as part of a date night.