|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,066
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,066 |
Last edited by Fireproof; 06/29/13 01:25 AM. Reason: removing quote and comment
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357 |
This woman is the best friend he went to when he found out about your affair. She's not just some neighbor or acquaintance, she's a best friend. She's someone he can confide in and go to for help and support. And she's a very high risk for your marriage. She cannot stay. That would be why. Karma, be aware that this in not Never's post.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362 Likes: 3
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362 Likes: 3 |
There's a major difference here, marital: Never has said that this woman is her husband's BEST friend. This is a friend he confides in, that he went to when he discovered his wife's affair. This is not a friend to the marriage, rather she is a major risk to the marriage. BTW, you going to a male friend on DDay was very risky behavior. I hope you are not advocating others on MB do the same.
Last edited by Fireproof; 06/29/13 01:26 AM. Reason: removing quote
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123 Likes: 1 |
The best logical answer I could provide is; exceptions do not disprove the rule, and that basing decisions on exceptions - rare or otherwise - is a risky decision. The information that NSN has provided so far illustrates this friendship as closer between her husband and this woman than between NSN and the woman - which really differentiates it from your example. It sounds as if NSN's BH is seeking support from this woman, rather than NSN seeking support. Even then - a woman venting to a friend with access to her husband that their marriage is vulnerable is yet another risky venture. The avenues in which this is a safely maintained friendship are fewer than those where it is a road to disaster.
Last edited by Fireproof; 06/29/13 01:27 AM. Reason: removing quote
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357 |
BTW, you going to a male friend on DDay was very risky behavior. I hope you are not advocating others on MB do the same. EXCUSE ME???! You are chastising me for WHAT??? Re-read my post: The first person I had H call on D-Day was 'Our best friend'. 
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362 Likes: 3
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362 Likes: 3 |
I apologize for misreading your post.
You get that Never's husband sought out his female best friend, right? It wasn't Never who sought her out. HE went to his best friend of the opposite sex.
It doesn't look like your situation was applicable to this one.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Not as black and white as you think. Just hear me out.
She is not just his friend, she is mine too. In fact she is like a sister to me. Which is significant because neither BH nor I have a single relative within 750 miles of us.
BH met her shortly before he met me. They never dated, never had any type of romantic or physical friendship. They mainly clicked because their sons were the same age. When BH and I started dating, I met her and instantly liked her, never felt threatened. So I accepted their friendship and soon she became OUR friend.
I had long ago expressed to him that I did not feel comfortable with the two of them spending time together without me, and although he may not have taken this as seriously as he should have, it has rarely been an issue. I have now requested that he not communicate with her directly, but I am not ready to remove this woman from lives. She and her son are like family to us, and we have no other family we can see without getting on a plane.
I am not naive enough to think a a woman who is "like a sister to me" could never
betray me. Another friend I felt this way about did exactly that. She made an advance toward my husband in my house while I was there. He immediately informed me, and I immediately sent her packing, no questions asked. We completely cut her out of our lives forever. And I never looked back.
As my screen name indicates, I have learned to "never say never." My husband and our friend/sister could fall in love and have an affair. But the bottom line is that it's a risk I'm willing to take. If it happens, my marriage is ruined all over again. But if we continue to work on meeting each others EN and keeping our love banks full, that's not going to happen. Sorry, neversaynever, but Prisca, markos and everyone else is correct, this is an opposite sex friendship that is not healthy for your marriage. This is a single woman, after all; not a couple.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
"2) his best friend is female. She is who he went to when he found out. I trust her and have never suspected anything secretive about their relationship, but this is obviously a breach of conditions."
It is his relationship with this woman that is the problem. I don't even understand why this is being debated. How else do we define an opposite sex friendship? And how many affairs have we seen on the board over the years when a single person "befriended" a married couple??
This is a no brainer!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7 |
As my screen name indicates, I have learned to "never say never." My husband and our friend/sister could fall in love and have an affair. But the bottom line is that it's a risk I'm willing to take. If it happens, my marriage is ruined all over again. But if we continue to work on meeting each others EN and keeping our love banks full, that's not going to happen. I just realized there's a grave misunderstanding here we need to address. Meeting emotional needs does not prevent an affair. Plenty of people with well-met emotional needs have affairs. And plenty of people with unmet emotional needs do not have affairs. (Shining example: most of the betrayed spouses in this forum were faithful while their mates were having affairs. Those betrayed spouses were usually in the same terrible marriages as the wayward spouses, but didn't have an affair.) What prevents an affair is Extraordinary Precautions. And one example of those is: no opposite sex friends. Extraordinary Precautions are for both of you.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433 |
As my screen name indicates, I have learned to "never say never." My husband and our friend/sister could fall in love and have an affair. But the bottom line is that it's a risk I'm willing to take. If it happens, my marriage is ruined all over again. But if we continue to work on meeting each others EN and keeping our love banks full, that's not going to happen. I just realized there's a grave misunderstanding here we need to address. Meeting emotional needs does not prevent an affair. Plenty of people with well-met emotional needs have affairs. And plenty of people with unmet emotional needs do not have affairs. (Shining example: most of the betrayed spouses in this forum were faithful while their mates were having affairs. Those betrayed spouses were usually in the same terrible marriages as the wayward spouses, but didn't have an affair.) What prevents an affair is Extraordinary Precautions. And one example of those is: no opposite sex friends. Extraordinary Precautions are for both of you. No opposite-sex friends is an EP that forces the closing of love bank accounts to others. NSN seems to think that if her LB balance is high enough, then others won't even have accounts in her husband's LB. *Wrong*. Every friend has an account. Every positive interaction with that friend makes deposits. You can have a really good marriage where both of you have substantial LB balances in each other's accounts, and *still* have an affair because of a friend's LB deposits. I know, because that is what happened to me.
me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 707
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 707 |
She is family. She stays. Not true. She is not family, and even if she were, you'd have to cut ties with her because she has been meeting your husband's EN. That makes her a direct threat to your marriage.
He does not spend time with her alone. He does not have conversations with her that I am excluded from.
I spend as much time with her as he does, and these get-togethers almost always include our children. You wrote that he does not spend time alone with her, but in the very next paragraph, you wrote that you spend as much time with her as he does. That suggests that he does spend time with her when you are not there, so he does have conversations with her that you are excluded from. In fact, you told us he had a private conversation with her immediately after he found out about your affair!
He is no more likely to have an affair with her at this point than with our female neighbors. I have a bad feeling about this comment; I'm afraid your female neighbors popped into your mind because you've noticed he has developed personal friendships with them, too. Are you afraid he will leave you if you insist that he end all of his OSF? Do we have to get rid of them too? He has been home alone all day while I am at work and so are the women that live on either side of us. This comment didn't come out of nowhere. It sounds like you are trying to talk yourself out of being concerned about his friendships with these women.
I know I do not have it within myself to resist OM, so EP are very appropriate. BH has never once lied to me about anything he's done involving other females. He has never had anything to hide. I'm sorry, but if he wants to cheat with this woman, she can have him. That's how confident I am that she is safe. If you are really that confident, why did you write "I had long ago expressed to him that I did not feel comfortable with the two of them spending time together without me, and although he may not have taken this as seriously as he should have, it has rarely been an issue. I have now requested that he not communicate with her directly"?
You said "he may not have taken this as seriously as he should have," which suggests he did spend time alone with her even after you asked him not to. And you said "it has rarely been an issue," meaning it has been an issue, at least occasionally. Every time he broke his promise to maintain that boundary, he made a deliberate choice to prioritize their relationship over your feelings. You should be very concerned about his willingness to do that, and do it repeatedly.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,440 Likes: 4
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,440 Likes: 4 |
Wow I can't believe this is even being debated. Whenever I counsel someone who seems incurably attracted to the opposite sex, I give them the following rules to avoid temptation: 1) Spend all your recreational time either alone or with your spouse, 2) no meals alone with someone of the opposite sex, 3) no rides in cars alone with those of the opposite sex, 4) never tell someone of the opposite sex that you find them attractive or that you like them and 5) if someone of the opposite sex ever tells you that they find you attractive, start talking about how much you love your spouse.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,066
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,066 |
Well, it seems she's been scared off, though I hope that is not the case
It's a shame.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,440 Likes: 4
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,440 Likes: 4 |
Well, it seems she's been scared off, though I hope that is not the case
It's a shame. Hopefully she wasn't scared off by following the advice that is from Dr. Harley and posters were just trying to educate her about MB.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 60
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 60 |
I'm back. Just needed a break. BH felt like I had replaced my addiction to texting OM with writing about it all here.
I have read all of your comments about the same-sex friend. I can't believe I didn't convince anyone it was OK! Just kidding. I knew what response I would get and all I can say is I have appreciated all the advice we have gleaned from you so far. Everything you suggested we do that we have done has worked just like you said it would. Which leads me to think you all know what you're talking about.
So, I won't disagree and I won't try to make exceptions. But I can't say that we have come to terms with this yet, or done anything more about it. Just being honest.
We have however made progress on other fronts, if anyone is interested. I will fill you in:
My job: as you know I told my supervisors last week that I would no longer be able to do half of my job because I could no longer go to that site. And I told them why. They said they would think about that. I also told the two colleagues who would be most affected by this change. To my surprise, one of them immediately went to bat for me saying she would be fine picking up some of that slack so I could keep my job. The other was not so enthusiastic, but who can blame her. Anyway, on Friday I was informed that my employers were willing to accommodate me. I would pick up more of my colleagues responsibilities, and they will cover what I can't do at the other. Wow, what an unexpected relief.
I have more updates, but I need to cook dinner for my family now. Thanks again for all the guidance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433 |
I'm back. Just needed a break. BH felt like I had replaced my addiction to texting OM with writing about it all here. We are glad you are still with us. I have read all of your comments about the same-sex friend. I can't believe I didn't convince anyone it was OK! Just kidding. I knew what response I would get and all I can say is I have appreciated all the advice we have gleaned from you so far. Everything you suggested we do that we have done has worked just like you said it would. Which leads me to think you all know what you're talking about.
So, I won't disagree and I won't try to make exceptions. But I can't say that we have come to terms with this yet, or done anything more about it. Just being honest. There are two ways to handle this. If she truly is just a friend, then back off on the contact. You and your husband should use the POJA to figure out how the two of you together will relate to this person in the future. But, if she is his "special best friend", then this is an emotional affair and needs to be treated like any other affair, with a NC letter and full EP's to protect your marriage.
me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433 |
Let me clarify what I am trying to say; the only acceptable future for this friendship is for her to be a friend of the marriage, and a friend to both of you as a couple. There can be no private contact between your husband and her.
me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 60
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 60 |
Let me clarify what I am trying to say; the only acceptable future for this friendship is for her to be a friend of the marriage, and a friend to both of you as a couple. There can be no private contact between your husband and her. That is exactly what I am proposing. That is what she has been for the past several years, OUR friend. I call her, I have lunch with her, she comes to our house with her son and we all have a BBQ. She and BH did have a friendship that excluded me in the past, but I can you with as much certainty as anyone can have that is was never romantic, and never physical. She has never tried to have BH to herself, and she has always been respectful of my feelings about their friendship. If am not comfortable with them hanging out together, she is fine with not hanging out with him unless I am there. She has far more integrity than most people I know. The problem has been in the past that I didn't tell either of them that their friendship bothered me. It wasn't that I was afraid they would have an A, I just didn't like feeling left out. Now that I have voiced my concerns, they have agreed that they cannot have a friendship that excludes me, ever. But the impression I was getting from the posters has been that because she and BH were once friends, (never anything more!) that she could no longer be his friend, my friend, or our friend. That's where I am struggling. I am fine with her not being "his friend"! That is my preference! I just don't want to lose her and her son as our family's friends.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,686
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,686 |
The problem we had is that he went to her with issues that you should never, EVER bring to an opposite sex friend.
One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger
I will not spend my life this way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 60
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 60 |
Other progress in the "exposure" department: BH successfully contacted OMGF and informed her of the A. She requested details, he sent her my journal. The one he read to confirm his suspicions about what I was up to. That is all I know, all I want to know. She doesn't seem to want to talk to me and that is fine with me. The whole exposure process has been very difficult and I will be glad when it's over.
BH also sent a letter to OM's ex-wife, as they have 3 daughters together. He thought she should know what their father was up to. And BH then called the HR dept at OM's company. Don't know if anything will be done, but I would really like this part to be over with ASAP.
I sure can see the value of these measures, although I never would have advocated for them on my own. Now I see why they are important. Every exposure makes it less and less likely that OM and I will be able to continue our affair. And I was surprised by how much I appreciated BH for doing this. I felt like he was doing it for me, to protect me (from myself) and because he loved me enough to make sure this guy never came near me again. That meant a lot to me.
I wish I could say I am through the withdrawal phase. It's not even been two weeks so I guess it's normal that I am still feeling this way but it's awful. I have no doubt that if it weren't for EP I would have figured out some way to contact OM to tell him something stupid like "how sorry I am for ruining his life." Don't worry! I didn't do it and I know that is a ridiculous thought! The only life I should be apologizing for ruining is BH's. You all have schooled me well on that point. But the addiction still has a hold on me and still rears it's ugly head sometimes.
Well that's all for now. It is movie night at our house and I need to put this away and join my family. Trying very hard to do the things I should have been doing all along.
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
1 members (1 invisible),
277
guests, and
74
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
